James Taylor Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I have been offered a position to tutor economics at the intro/intermediate level on campus 9 hours a week. The problem is, I'm afraid of biting off more than I can chew, as my workload this semester appears quite daunting. So would the benefit of saying "I tutored economics for a semester" on an application be worth the possible added stress that taking the position will bring me? Not to mention the possibility of my grades suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbun Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 What's the pay like? At my school tutors get paid around $85 an hour, so it's hard to say no. Is there any way you can reduce the number of hours? I personally do 3 hours a week, which I find to be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Taylor Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 $85 an hour! Jesus, I wouldn't think twice! I've been offered a measly $8/hour. I haven't discussed reducing the hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathemagician Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 $85 an hour is crazy. Graduate students in my program usually charge around $30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanomics Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) I tutor 3 hours a week for free, and that's exhausting enough. Teaching is exhausting unless, I imagine, you don't care about actually conveying the material and are content to just parrot textbook definitions to glazed-eyes. The benefit to tutoring doesn't come in application signals, it comes in nailing first principles so hard they're screaming for more -- and there are incredible long run benefits to having your first principles down when you're trying to focus on the mathematical description of them later. There are arguably even larger returns in the very long run, having enough intuitive sense of them to make productive observations in your research later. That's the whole point of the Chicago Price Theoretic approach, at least -- the department's abundance of Nobels might bear the argument here. I tutored a blind student in intermediate micro for $12 an hour and resented every minute of it. It was the most difficult thing I've ever done. I didn't understand or remember intermediate micro well enough to put together a weekly lecture series in it, and that's what was required -- he got nothing out of the regular lectures not being able to see the board (so I drew the diagrams really huge in Sharpie during our sessions, and he could see them from a few inches away). I muscled through it, relearning (finally learning?) micro. Between that and the econ club tutoring I've done, I can now think more readily about the moves someone is making when I'm reading professional literature. And the kid at least got a B, which made me feel awl-right, considering my task as an UG was basically to teach him micro by myself. Edited September 2, 2012 by Humanomics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemdas Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Poor *Merica :( I used to tutor the courses on financial accounting and business stats - all were introductory courses - at the rate of 15-16 USD @ hour in my post-soviet country 7 years ago. When I tutored I never got exhausted as the courses were of an introductory level; it was exciting to make people aware of new knowledge after I had passed these courses at grad. level within my finance master's. I believe an intermediate econ (micro I assume) may be exhausting - the trainees' school rigor may be strict. I remember from my undergrad the course is full of the calculus. If I were you, I would decline that tutorship offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanomics Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) Poor *Merica http://www.www.urch.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.png I used to tutor the courses on financial accounting and business stats - all were introductory courses - at the rate of 15-16 USD @ hour in my post-soviet country 7 years ago. When I tutored I never got exhausted as the courses were of an introductory level; it was exciting to make people aware of new knowledge after I had passed these courses at grad. level within my finance master's. I believe an intermediate econ (micro I assume) may be exhausting - the trainees' school rigor may be strict. I remember from my undergrad the course is full of the calculus. If I were you, I would decline that tutorship offer. My program, and the vast majority of UG economics programs in the states, do not teach anything but honors-track courses with calculus. The way our public education system is structured, for better or worse, leaves most entering college students without calculus. That said, taking a couple first derivatives and integrating over a demand curve to establish a consumer surplus for a problem set, presents only a small-margin more of difficulty (and depth) in understanding producer and consumer theory . . . which is why the profession confidently omits these details for most economic education (in conjunction with the institutional constraints cited). Getting undergraduates to understand the human story that's being told with the models is the only way to get them to understand the models, and something that more advanced and mathematically motivated UGs probably arrive at independently only because of deeper personal reflection on the behavioral and empirical implications of the theories they're studying. Actually teaching economics to UG's, rather than merely reminding them to set a supply and demand equation equal to one another, is difficult and extremely useful beyond a line on a CV. @James Taylor I'm venturing it's the school that's offering you $8.00 an hour. My Uni pays me $8.75 for RA work. So in whatever grotesquelly-distorted market that does exist for UG academic work, the wage sounds "fair." I hear Kaplan people make very good money; my friend who tutors rich private high-school kids for the SAT takes home like $100 an hour; and you have the above examples. So if it's private tutoring, and the kid's not blind and paying you out of his government assistance, I would bargain for a much higher wage. Edited September 2, 2012 by Humanomics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Taylor Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Yes its the school that offered me the position. Honestly money was never the issue, I think having the experience would be more valuable. I'm just worried about the time I'd have to commit to it. I'm more of a micro theory guy, and I would have to re-acquaint myself with all the intermediate macro stuff if I wanted to do anyone any good. I'm taking Calc II this semester, and I've been devoting about 3 hours a night to that class so far. Also I'm taking a math econ class that doubles as a grad class, and thats going to require a lot of preparation. This tutoring position is such a great opportunity, but if I get an A- in any of the classes I'm taking this semester I think the signalling benefit of tutoring would be completely negated. I think I'd rather devote those 9 hours a week to studying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chateauheart Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Your reasoning is good. I would turn down that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanomics Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I would see if you can negotiate the hours down to three. That's not that bad. You and Chateau are right though: courses do come first. I put my research before math classes last semester and now my recommenders have a couple B's to explain for me -- that was an unnecessary development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmedEcon Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 To OP: Don't do it, particularly for only $8/hr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenMan Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 To OP: Don't do it, particularly for only $8/hr. McDonalds pays significantly better in Canada... Like $10USD/Hour to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemdas Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 McDonalds pays significantly better in Canada... Like $10USD/Hour to start. why every one digs into a BUCK when the man inquired of the benefits experience-wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanomics Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 The extent of a market delimits at the boundary where one ceases to find good substitutes for an opportunity. Talking about Canadian McDonalds wages and tutoring fees received by people at rich schools or with access to rich tutees is meaningless. A pecuniary budget constraint only makes sense when benefits can be reasonably packed into fungible units. Not the case here, at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemdas Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Humanomics you are definitely reading into micro :) I would also add Maslow's hierarchy of needs and economic reasoning in the human and the non-human, namely reward for knowledge as opposed to that for food. GreenMan, as an economist you may know these two are quite different and may not substitute each other. That is food is not going to replace knowledge and the vice verse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanomics Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) Maslow's hierarchy was developed in an early 20th century intellectual climate which gave us, similarly Rostow's stages . . . and other theories of social "maturity" and "development" like scientific eugenics. The hierarchy is nothing but an intuitively appealing wave of hands that's been reprinted in introductory psychology texts sufficiently that everyone believes it has some kind of relevance. And that infant --> early childhood --> adolescence --> adulthood metaphor about societies leads to extraordinary damage through Sach's brand paternalism. Returns to knowledge are demonstrably huge -- that's TFP and human capital. We don't need Maslow; it's not clear definitionally what a "need" is anyway, whether for Maslow or for food; and one wonders how anyone satisfying the first tier of the hierarchy does so without consuming knowledge and community from the top of the pyramid first. I think everyone agrees it's probably not worth it for OP to risk his grades for beer money and a review of ISLM, though. Edited September 2, 2012 by Humanomics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemdas Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Once you achieve the first tier of hierarchy you start seeking PhD :triumphant: , you will go beyond the so called materialistic boundaries and will care very little about people of your age plunging into the dough rivers. As to me Maslow's is working perfectly. All theories are challenged and argued against. That's why they are called theories: conclusions based on critical reasoning elements (premises). Any shift in the set of premises will limit even the strongest theories. No theory is spotless irrespective of its scholastic origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Python7768 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 ^^ Agree with the above. I had a TA position as an undergrad (also $8 an hour). My professor was flexible with me though. I had 5 set office hours a week that I attended (whether people came or not was another question and I often could do hw and such during parts of those hours). I also had to key and grade tests and grade hw. On weeks I was busy he understood that my grades were more important and said I could give them completion grades on hw. Ask them about how flexible they can be. If they won't come down from 9 then it sounds like you've already got a pretty full plate and turning them down might be a good idea. The benefit to tutoring doesn't come in application signals, it comes in nailing first principles so hard they're screaming for more -- and there are incredible long run benefits to having your first principles down when you're trying to focus on the mathematical description of them later. There are arguably even larger returns in the very long run, having enough intuitive sense of them to make productive observations in your research later. That's the whole point of the Chicago Price Theoretic approach, at least -- the department's abundance of Nobels might bear the argument here. -Humanomics ^^Agree with where the benefit in tutoring comes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Taylor Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 Ok I turned it down. Now I'm going to go back to growing out my beard and hair to an unprofessionally long extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsokrates Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Ok I turned it down. Now I'm going to go back to growing out my beard and hair to an unprofessionally long extent. In defense of beards: first, bearded economists are if anything over-represented among Nobel winners. Second, although a nutty professor/homeless guy beard is probably unprofessional for industry, it might very well increase effectiveness in teaching. Combined with well-timed crazy eyes, the homeless guy beard can strike just the right amount to fear into undergrads' hearts. And when you're trying to teach a room full of hung over nineteen year olds how to calculate price elasticity at 8am on a Friday, fear is pretty much all you've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanomics Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Fear and cleavage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Taylor Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 In defense of beards: first, bearded economists are if anything over-represented among Nobel winners. Second, although a nutty professor/homeless guy beard is probably unprofessional for industry, it might very well increase effectiveness in teaching. Combined with well-timed crazy eyes, the homeless guy beard can strike just the right amount to fear into undergrads' hearts. And when you're trying to teach a room full of hung over nineteen year olds how to calculate price elasticity at 8am on a Friday, fear is pretty much all you've got. I have had a professor with a beard and crazy eyes! He began each lecture with an enthusiastic, if not slightly demented, "good afternoon scholars!!!" It definitely catches you off guard the first few times. He ended up being my favorite professor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRod Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Your reasoning is good. I would turn down that position. I second this. A good read: Pricing Experiments You Might Not Know, But Can Learn From | ConversionXL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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