[Econ Masters] Toronto vs. UBC vs. UCL

[mosquitonomics]

I have been admitted to University of Toronto (Regular Stream), UBC, and UCL for a Masters in Economics and could use some advice from you all to inform my decision. I have also applied to LSE for the MSc but have not heard back. I have to respond to the other offers by March 31st, so if I don't hear back from LSE by then I will withdraw my app. My goal is to attend a reputed PhD program in economics (for a career in academia) afterwards and specialize in behavioural or environmental economics.

 

UBC has given me full-funding (and some extra for living expenses) while Toronto and UCL are unfunded. Of course, for the masters I won't be specializing but it would still be helpful to go somewhere with leading faculty in my area of interest. Since I am committed to going for a PhD afterwards I want to go somewhere which has good placements into PhD programs.

 

So far my thought process is going like this:

 

UBC

pros: fully funded, #1 in Canada and top 25 wordwide (I think?), academic-oriented program with emphasis on research, vancouver is a beautiful city

cons: not many leading faculty in behavioural/environmental econ (please correct me if I am wrong), lower ranked than UCL

 

Toronto

pros: Has good record of placing M.A. students into good PhD programs, I am from Toronto and love the city

cons: waitlisted into doctoral stream, seems to be a professional-oriented program from industry rather than academia, not funded

 

UCL

pros: bigger name than UBC/Toronto, more distinguished and leading faculty (bigger names), good record of placing top students in top PhD programs

cons: not funded, london is expensive,

 

I plan to use my fully-funded UBC offer as leverage to increase my chances of getting into the Toronto Doctoral Stream (which is funded). If that doesn't happen, it will probably be between UBC and UCL.

 

A couple final questions:

1. Does anyone have an idea of past MSc. --> PhD placements for UBC and UCL? Are they more or less similar?

2. Is there any difference in the rigor of the two programs

3. I would like to take as many technical courses as I can (advanced econometrics, more math, etc) as PhD preparation. Which school provides the most room for taking those classes?

4. If I graduated in the top of my class from either school (of the three), would it make a difference to the rank of PhD school I could get into? For example, if I graduated with top marks in any of the three schools, which would would have higher chances of getting me into a top (10?) PhD program?

 

Thanks in advance

[NBZ]

In my opinion, strength in field is less important for MA (the core courses are the most important, after all), and placements, strength and rigor of training, access to potential LOR writers, ability to boost quantitative skills/math profile etc. are more important factors. So your 4 questions are on the mark.

 

I applied to UBC as well and when researching on the program, found a couple of useful discussions about it on this forum:

1. http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/119638-urgent-complete-placement-record-ubc-econ-ma.html

2. http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/139698-need-help-choose-my-ma-program-canada.html

 

For info on placements, ability to take technical courses etc., you could also contact the faculty members/program coordinators directly.

[setsanto]

I plan to use my fully-funded UBC offer as leverage to increase my chances of getting into the Toronto Doctoral Stream (which is funded). If that doesn't happen, it will probably be between UBC and UCL.

 

AFAIK this is impossible. The best shot you have is for a $5k scholarship + TAship. The TAships are disbursed on an application basis for regular stream admits, while the scholarship is a definite possibility if you use your UBC funding offer.

 

From the email I got from Miquel Faig:

 

" 2 - The Doctoral Stream students are offered a generous funding package,

which for this coming year will be worth around $25,000 (see the details in

your offer letter). In contrast, there is no general funding commitment for

Regular Stream students. However, this year I have been offered some funds

to attract top students into this program. So, I would be able to offer to

you a package comprised of 210 TA hours (worth around $9,200) plus an

entrance scholarship worth $5,000. In both cases, you would be responsible

for paying tuition plus fees."

 

 

Concerning "3. I would like to take as many technical courses as I can (advanced econometrics, more math, etc) as PhD preparation. Which school provides the most room for taking those classes?", there is the possibility to take PhD classes at UofT as a regular stream . Again, as per the email from Miquel Faig,

 

"All students in the Doctoral Stream must take one core PhD sequence

(micro, macro, or econometrics). Regular Stream students can also take one

of these sequences. To do so, they must seek my approval, which I grant to

all students with a strong background."

[coffeehouse]

I can confirm that you can use your UBC funding to get at least equal funding in the regular stream toronto MA.

My friend did this and Miguel Faig matched within minutes. He went from no funding to 15k or something?

[setsanto]

He went from no funding to 15k or something?

 

Probably the $5k fellowship plus ~$9.5k TA salary.

[Noodles]

I can vouch for the UBC leverage. I uploaded my UBC offer without even asking/emailing the dept (I was intending to just have it on the record). I got an email fairly quickly about the TA-ship and scholarship. From other posters in this thread, it appears as if Toronto is trying to nab potential UBC students; I had other, more generous offers uploaded for the Econ dept, and didn't hear a peep until I uploaded UBC's offer.

 

Of course, the extra funds are limited, and so they may have already allocated what extra funds they have on hand at the moment to applicants.

[coffeehouse]

I can vouch for the UBC leverage. I uploaded my UBC offer without even asking/emailing the dept (I was intending to just have it on the record). I got an email fairly quickly about the TA-ship and scholarship. From other posters in this thread, it appears as if Toronto is trying to nab potential UBC students; I had other, more generous offers uploaded for the Econ dept, and didn't hear a peep until I uploaded UBC's offer.

 

Of course, the extra funds are limited, and so they may have already allocated what extra funds they have on hand at the moment to applicants.

 

UBC and UofT definitely have some sort of rivalry going on. I'm sure this was always around, but this year UBC (since they are now VSE) has been funding their PhD students higher to try to match UofT.

[mosquitonomics]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I heard back from Toronto today and they matched my funding package from UBC. I guess in a way this makes the decision even harder.

 

I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts on UCL vs. the other two. Assume that money is not an issue, so I am looking for an opinion solely based on the quality/rigor of the program, then name it carries, quality of faculty, and potential for getting me into a top 10 PhD.

 

Setsanto, it seems you also applied to UBC and UCL, and chose to attend Toronto Doctoral Stream. If you don't mind, can you tell me what factors influenced your decision?

 

Note that I am Canadian, and personally feel more comfortable going to a Canadian school (I have been working in a foreign country the last couple years and have a preference to study back at home). However, I would definitely consider UCL only if the high cost of tuition+living in London is offset by it being a much better school in all aspects and will get me into a better PhD program than UBC/U of T.

[setsanto]

Setsanto, it seems you also applied to UBC and UCL, and chose to attend Toronto Doctoral Stream. If you don't mind, can you tell me what factors influenced your decision?

 

Money was a huge one for me. My parents live near UofT so the only real cost I will incur is tuition plus incidentals and maybe eating out every now and then. UBC was offering me much less money and UCL was offering me none at all. Further I would have to rent a place, buy my own groceries and so on in those other countries. I calculated it to be about a $30000 difference between UofT and UBC and a $50000 difference between UofT and UCL when the different funding packages were accounted for.

 

UofT also has a very strong program. UBC and UCL are both higher ranked, but I think that the more important question is what sort of doors will each program open up. If I don't decide to do a PhD, Toronto is much better located than Vancouver in terms of getting a good job out of school, and I don't see myself working in the UK which would negate any of the benefits of being located in London (though I am a British citizen). If I do decide to do a PhD, then acing doctoral stream won't look any better or worse than acing the other two programs in the opinion of most of the people I've spoken to. It is possible that the letter writers I get at UCL or UBC could be better than those at UofT, but frankly I'm willing to take that chance due to the aforementioned differences in costs.

[Crow]

I'm currently deciding between UBC vs Toronto (reg) vs Oxford MPhil. Currently leaning towards Toronto. My main worry with Toronto is getting solid letters. The class size is I think around 60 people for the regular stream? I like the chance of being able to do one of the PhD course sequences, but the two courses are apparently each broken into two modules taught by different profs, so you really only get less than 2 months to work with any of them here.

[mosquitonomics]

Thanks for noting some of the pros of U of T. Some concerns include that the program is only 8 months and does not have any sort of thesis or dissertation. I am planning for a PhD and enjoy research, and thus want to go somewhere where I can apply all my coursework into some sort of major paper at the end of it. This would be even better if it is in direct supervision by a professor, because I am afraid that large class sizes may make it hard to be noticed. UBC has a summer "major paper" supplemented by a course in research methods, and UCL has a formal dissertation.

 

Another thing I was recently thinking about is that at UBC the M.A. is part of the Vancouver School of Economics. Since it was absorbed into the school, there are now more resources available to students. For example, there are several research centres and institutes where students can seek opportunities to work with faculty. To my knowledge Toronto doesn't have something like this.

 

Anyway, I have some final questions which I hope someone can answer. It would be nice to know the answers for the three schools, but if anyone has particular knowledge about any single one, that is extremely helpful as well

 

1. How approachable/available/accessible are the faculty?

2. Are the faculty more focused on their PhD students, or do they care about MSc./M.A. candidates as well? This is not only in terms of availability or interaction, but mostly about their involvement with our research

3. How helpful are profs for writing reccommendations

4. What is the MSc./M.A. Economic student body/atmosphere like, in terms of being cooperative and friendly? Or, are they outright competitive?

 

Thanks

[coffeehouse]

Regarding UBC:

 

1. The professors teaching the core MA courses are approachable, they are all very kind. However, they are almost always the junior guys. Senior profs MAY teach in second semester, however, this is too late if you wish to get a letter. If you want to wait an extra year to apply, then sure. Outside of the junior faculty that teach the core sequence, I would assume the professors are somewhat approachable. This can't be generalized to the entire department.

 

2. There are 40-50 MA students, so I would say that the majority of the focus is on the PhD students, this is to be expected everywhere though! There is a thesis to write at the end so I assume there is more focus on the MA students than a department that does not require a thesis.

 

3. This is a common problem everywhere. A lot of students receive A+'s in the first semester courses. Professors can't be writing strong letters to all dozen students.. so the problem is how will you stand out? I don't know. I know some professors recommend the students to apply to UBC and UofT and then possibly reapply after first year of PhD.

 

4. I think they are all friendly and not too competitive. They all take classes together and work on problem sets together. Less than half the students want to do a PhD after.

Edited March 26, 2014 by coffeehouse