Signal Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) I'm hoping to get feedback on places to apply, or steps to take to improve my chances of getting into a PhD program. I understand that my GPA may force me into a master's degree first, as I won't even meet the application requirements for most schools. Still, I'd very much like to go straight into a PhD if possible - even if it means going to a lower ranked school. Are there any programs that are known for taking turnaround cases like mine? I'm open to just about anywhere in the U.S. or Europe. PROFILE: Type of Undergrad: Large State College Undergrad GPA: 2.8 (cum), 4.0 (Last 70 semester units) - No kidding. Type of Grad: N/A Grad GPA: N/A GRE: 166Q 162V but I can probably improve both a couple points if necessary. Math Courses:. Calculus II, III (multi-variable), Stats, Linear Algebra, ODE, Real Analysis (MA Level), Numerical Analysis - (All As) Econ Courses (grad-level):.I'll take a couple before I graduate; econometrics for sure. Econ Courses (undergrad-level):. Tons, (All As.) Other Courses: Lots of computer science classes. Letters of Recommendation:. Econ professors who like me a lot, possibly the econ department chair. Research Experience:. None, and I'm having a hard time finding opportunities so far. Teaching Experience:. None, unless tutoring counts Research Interests:. Computational economics, game theory, Micro theory SOP: I don't even know yet.. Concerns: An alarming GPA, state school. Other: Should finish up a B.S. in economics this year. Applying to: I'm all ears. Thanks for your time. Edited March 29, 2014 by Signal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pch Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Do I understand correctly, you have a GPA of 2.8 but you got A in every econ & math course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Can you get your GPA above 3.0 prior to graduation? A lot of the grad schools that I looked at seem to have a cut-off of 3.0 for consideration, and that was sometimes required by the graduate school rather than the department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeefan Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Do I understand correctly, you have a GPA of 2.8 but you got A in every econ & math course? "Unusual Profile Evaluation" is clearly an understatement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Do I understand correctly, you have a GPA of 2.8 but you got A in every econ & math course? That is correct. I had a lot of bad grades before discovering my love for econ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Can you get your GPA above 3.0 prior to graduation? A lot of the grad schools that I looked at seem to have a cut-off of 3.0 for consideration, and that was sometimes required by the graduate school rather than the department. It is possible to do this, but it would require me to really pack my schedule. Even then, I wouldn't have a 3.0 by application time (this december), only by the time I graduate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Can you delay graduation for a year? If for some reason you absolutely can't do this, could you at least wait until after graduation to apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Is delaying my graduation a year better or worse than spending a year getting a master's? I really appreciate the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econhead Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Is delaying my graduation a year better or worse than spending a year getting a master's? I really appreciate the advice! Per Catrina's comments above, some graduate schools (not the programs themselves) will NOT admit you if you do not have a 3.0. Not that you need to validate this, but what in gods name did you do with your gen ed or previous major to end up with a 2.8 cumulative after Ace-ing all Econ and Math? Was there some extraneous situation? This is just baffling to me since it generally takes little effort to get a B in those classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I think that delaying graduation a year would be a better option. You will also want to try to get research experience during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Per Catrina's comments above, some graduate schools (not the programs themselves) will NOT admit you if you do not have a 3.0. Ah, I see. Not that you need to validate this, but what in gods name did you do with your gen ed or previous major to end up with a 2.8 cumulative after Ace-ing all Econ and Math? Was there some extraneous situation? This is just baffling to me since it generally takes little effort to get a B in those classes. I don't really have an excuse, I failed several classes because I wasn't showing up. There were other things that were more interesting to me than general ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econhead Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Ah, I see. I don't really have an excuse, I failed several classes because I wasn't showing up. There were other things that were more interesting to me than general ed. This is something many of us learn the hard way, myself included. Now you have a very big hill to climb to get to where you (rightfully, or so it appears) should be. Delaying graduation is probably your best bet as Catrina indicated. The only reason I would disagree with this is if your LoRers indicate they know people at Duke or another good MA program that can get you in, and your cumulative GPA will be overlooked because you really do know your ****. Nonetheless, this is not a fun battle to fight-You made a dumb decision that is causing more work for your LoRer(s). Hopefully the one with connections likes you a lot. Even if your LoRers could get you into a Ph.D program, I think your prospects would be much better going to a Master's first. Do some amazing work, network, and get into someplace stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I have another thought. At my school, if you retake a class, only the new grade counts in the GPA calculation. If your school is the same, you could raise your GPA considerably just by retaking some of the classes that you failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 I have another thought. At my school, if you retake a class, only the new grade counts in the GPA calculation. If your school is the same, you could raise your GPA considerably just by retaking some of the classes that you failed. Alas, my school does nothing of the sort. Assuming I can get up to barely above 3.0, what kinds of schools do you guys think I'd be looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pch Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I really wonder how adcoms look at profiles like yours. For sure you would need to give a convincing explanation in your statement of purpose (but not too long, you don't want to focus on your weaknesses but rather your strengths). It would make sense for them to focus on your stellar math & econ grades but it would also make sense not to completely disregard your other grades, especially that they must be not just mediocre but very poor. As was mentioned above, first and foremost your worry is whether you meet GPA cut offs. Once you do, a human will look into your application package and will (hopefully) see a fellow human in you and show some understanding of your situation. If I was you, I would contact a number of departments, say in the top 30-60 range, if they don't specify cut offs on their website, briefly explain your situation and ask if you should bother applying (i.e. will they even consider you?) If at all, doing a master program would only make sense if you can get into one of the top ones but just like PhD programs, they may not want to accept you because of your overall GPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 I'll try that, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econhead Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Alas, my school does nothing of the sort. Assuming I can get up to barely above 3.0, what kinds of schools do you guys think I'd be looking at? I am going to take a somewhat different perspective than PCH. First, I agree that contacting departments would be very good for you - but I think there is a confounding "second cut off" that is not being considered. Even if Signal meets the graduate school cut off, he may not meet the departmental cutoff, whether that is advertised or not. There has been some discussion that departments may not answer truthfully whether they have a secretary summarily reject individuals based on a particular GPA or GRE score. I still think you should provide some information about your LoRers, and speak to them about where you should apply. I do not think that departments looking at you as a human is your greatest obstacle. Your peers will have good or stellar performances across the board-you would if not for those stupid mistakes. Therefore, your LoRers are going to be your best chance to get into a good MA program. I think the opportunity cost of doing a MA (especially if completing a good MA) is worth it, given your scenario. If you have perused this board much, you'll hear that the application process is 'noisy.' In many respects, it really isn't; it gets quite complicated though with profiles such as yours. Some will view you as 'taking a chance,' while others may view you as an obvious choice (again, if they actually look at your performance). You are going to get some noisy results-your best option to eliminate that noise when applying for a masters is to have LoRers that can make a phone call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 This may be a crazy idea, but I just thought of something: Would you consider transferring schools and graduating from somewhere else? The reason why I am suggesting this is that, on most applications, you list the GPA from each school that you attended separately. At least at my school, the grades are listed for transfer credits but they are not included in your GPA. This means that you would probably have a 4.0, or close to it, at the institution that would be granting your actual degree. I would imagine that at least some schools would determine GPA cutoffs based on the last school attended, and if that is the case it would help you considerably. Even if not, it would probably look a lot better to an admissions committee to see that you have a 4.0 at New University and a 2.8 at Old University than to see just a 3.0 at your old school. If you do this, be sure to transfer to a school that is at least as good as the one that you are currently at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Would you consider transferring schools and graduating from somewhere else? Heh, I like the creative thinking. If transferring to a different school helps, I will definitely do it. I'll look into this, but I suspect that won't help my cause that much and will just make my academic history more weird than it already is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Heh, I like the creative thinking. If transferring to a different school helps, I will definitely do it. I'll look into this, but I suspect that won't help my cause that much and will just make my academic history more weird than it already is. You should seriously look into it. A weird history with a 4.0 GPA is better than a slightly more normal history with a 3.0 GPA. I really think this may be the best option, and you should stay at your new undergrad for at least 1.5 years, and maybe get some research experience while you are at it. Just don't transfer to a worse school. It would look really bad to have a 2.8 at a top-10 school followed by a 4.0 at Middle-of-Nowhere State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeefan Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Transferring schools as a way to artificially boost your GPA is a clever idea, except no respectable school will admit a transfer applicant with a 2.8 GPA, despite the fact that you may have aced all your math/econ courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Transferring schools as a way to artificially boost your GPA is a clever idea, except no respectable school will admit a transfer applicant with a 2.8 GPA, despite the fact that you may have aced all your math/econ courses. I'm not so sure, because Signal has gotten a 4.0 during the last two years. Given the importance of essays in undergrad admissions, maybe if he/she writes a compelling essay describing his or her improvement it will help If nothing else, Signal could always apply as a transfer student and see if he/she can get accepted somewhere decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econhead Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Transferring schools as a way to artificially boost your GPA is a clever idea, except no respectable school will admit a transfer applicant with a 2.8 GPA, despite the fact that you may have aced all your math/econ courses. Respectable is relative and can mean so many different things. large state schools are always 'respectable,' as are T50/70 national/econ. There is certainly a difference between a T50 national/econ vs. a T70 or nonrank. Given that OP is at a state school, it could be any of the above. Hell, OP could potentially even be at a better ranked school (OSU anyone?). Assuming OP is at a T70 or unranked program, OP would likely boost his chances by moving to a T50 if at worse, which I think would likely accept him. I know of similar (or far worse profiles) transfering to a T50-70. The opportunity cost of moving could be gigantic, though, given the length of time OP would HAVE to stay there (for graduation purposes) and given out of state tuition. I wouldn't consider this if my LoRers had experience placing students (recently) and were very confident they could help me get into a good master's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Econhead, IF OP does this option, he or she may not need the masters. He/she already has excellent math and econ grades, and the only flaw that OP has is with the GPA. If OP stays at the new school for 1.5 or two years, takes more advanced classes, and graduates with a near 4.0 GPA, I would be shocked if a masters would be necessary just because OP has a low GPA from a previous school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econhead Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Econhead, IF OP does this option, he or she may not need the masters. He/she already has excellent math and econ grades, and the only flaw that OP has is with the GPA. If OP stays at the new school for 1.5 or two years, takes more advanced classes, and graduates with a near 4.0 GPA, I would be shocked if a masters would be necessary just because OP has a low GPA from a previous school. I agree, but I am expecting that the time to do a master's would be about the same for the residency requirement of switching universities (30-60 credits depending on university-potentially out of state tuition). Thus, given that funding is sometimes available for Master's (even if just in terms of TA positions), a master's might have a lower opportunity cost and potentially offer a better rank for applying to Ph.D program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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