rutten Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hi all, Over the past year I have taken an interest in Economics. I was researching graduate programs online and saw that Masters programs aren't particular 'worth it'? From what I gather, the recommendation is generally to go the whole hog to PhD. Now, I have a BA in American Studies from a mid-table UK university - pretty much completely unrelated. In the UK, we focus on our major straightaway and are not given the option to take math or stats courses at uni. Therefore, I have no math background to speak of (I got a B in Math and a C in Stats at 'high school', from what I remember, and that's it). No econ or real business experience to speak of (I taught English in South Korea after graduating). I'll be emigrating to the US in the next few months as I married an American, so I'm talking about US requirements here. My question is: if I start taking math, econ and stats courses in summer 2015 and, for the sake of argument, I ace them all and get a competitive GRE score to boot, how long will it take to take all the relevant courses needed to get into an econ PhD? Do you think I have a chance getting into a program at all? Brutally honest answers are welcome :) Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsanto Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I was researching graduate programs online and saw that Masters programs aren't particular 'worth it'? From what I gather, the recommendation is generally to go the whole hog to PhD. This advice is only relevant to North American applicants from North American schools who majored in Econ and did well in those classes. You will note that you tick none of those checkboxes! In your case, a Masters is not only worth it, it is essentially necessary. I'm assuming that you have no real economics course work so far, which means you need to take AT LEAST an intermediate undergraduate class in economics before you even think about applying to Master's programs. You will also need Calculus (preferably Multivariate), Linear Algebra (2 courses would be great, 1 should be sufficient) and some sort of Mathematical Statistics. For a PhD you will Real Analysis as well. In terms of timing, most people need at least 3 semesters of full course loads to finish everything, though it is better to space it over at least 4 semesters so that you don't go insane. Really though, I am wondering why you have decided that a PhD in Economics is your goal if you don't have any previous exposure to economics. Why do you think it is right for you? Concerning your chances of getting in, it will really depend on where you take the classes, how well you do in them and who writes your letters. Currently we have absolutely no information whatsoever about you that is relevant to an admissions decision, so it is impossible to say. Nothing you have done so far prepares you for a PhD in economics, you are entirely right when you say you're starting from scratch. Consider that everyone else applying to a PhD has an undergraduate degree in Economics or a Mathematical discipline. You are essentially proposing to apply right out of high school for all intents and purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The advice not to do a masters is intended for those students who have a strong background in math and economics from undergrad. In your case, a MA may well be the best route, although it may not be necessary. However, you couldn't even get into a masters program without any math. I would think that the shortest route would be to enroll full-time and do the following: 1. Take calc 1 during the first summer. Spend the time between now and then studying so that you will be ready for calc 1. 2. Take calc 2, intro micro, intro macro, and intro statistics 2. Take linear algebra, intermediate micro, intermediate macro, and econometrics. Apply to masters programs. 3. Take calc 3 in the summer 4. Do a masters, and take differential equations and real analysis while in the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gradhope Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Check out a couple of programs, most of them have a minimum math requirement. UMD for example Applications and Admissions FAQ | Department of Economics, University of Maryland It is pretty much the same with other programs, I guess. It depends on what kind of program you want. I'd say it is very very difficult to get into a top 30 program with little math and no econ background. If you are aiming lower I'd say it is possible, check out some profiles here. How long it would take depends on how hard you work. But I'd say two years should be enough, something like two semesters calculus+stat+L Algebra; then ODE+stat+intro analysis... something like that should do. If you are aiming low, you could get around with less than that, maybe 1 year would do. In my opinion, you can't rush that much with math, some concepts just take time to become natural. There is another issue, even if you get admitted into a good program, say out of luck, it is important that you survive. You will need math! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Check out a couple of programs, most of them have a minimum math requirement. UMD for example Applications and Admissions FAQ | Department of Economics, University of Maryland It is pretty much the same with other programs, I guess. It depends on what kind of program you want. I'd say it is very very difficult to get into a top 30 program with little math and no econ background. If you are aiming lower I'd say it is possible, check out some profiles here. How long it would take depends on how hard you work. But I'd say two years should be enough, something like two semesters calculus+stat+L Algebra; then ODE+stat+intro analysis... something like that should do. If you are aiming low, you could get around with less than that, maybe 1 year would do. In my opinion, you can't rush that much with math, some concepts just take time to become natural. There is another issue, even if you get admitted into a good program, say out of luck, it is important that you survive. You will need math! I wouldn't rely on the math requirements listed on any website, since they tend to be understated. I think you are underestimating the difficulty of getting into lower-ranked programs. There is no way that he/she could take enough economics and math to get into any decent economics program within a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutten Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Firstly, the speed and quality of the responses are fantastic. Thanks very much everyone. Secondly, I know it'll probably sound a bit thin, but after reading articles on the (WSJ, Economist, Wonkblog etc); reading a few intro/popular books on econ and related subjects and; I guess, entering the 'real world', I've started to really look at how economics pervades every aspect of our lives. I've started to look back at my American Studies interests with 'new eyes' and it's exciting. I'm really enjoying it. I've started to dabble with econ and business classes on Coursera, which I think has given me at least a taster of what goes on in those classrooms (even if that taster is but a crumb of the real thing). No meat to speak of, but I've looked at entering other areas of study and none seem to motivate me more than the idea of pushing forward with this. 3. The Masters makes sense. A lot of sense. Is it easy to matriculate from an MA/MSc to PhD? I've heard that the first two years of PhD is basically your masters (different to the UK, I think)? Will taking a masters first cut/make up part of the 2 years from your PhD? I definitely need to learn to walk before I run and I've taken note of all the courses you all have provided me with above. Great advice. So, at least I have a place to start. Will programs specify which courses they require if I contact them or is it generally a mix of the above? Postgrad programs generally are vague about requirements in general, I guess :) 4. Where am I looking at? Probably somewhere in the South, as that is where the family is based - as far North as D.C. probably. Not that I'm just looking at 'what's closest' - I wouldn't undercut hard work for the sake of convenience - but the University of Alabama has a PhD Econ program but it doesn't publish its rankings? Probably not a great sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The masters doesn't cut any time off of the PhD--it will still take a full five to six years. The schools that are listed as "rank not published" in US News are not listed that way because they decline to publish their rankings, but rather because their ranking is below 2.0 and US News just lists all schools in that category as unranked (see: http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/2014/03/10/methodology-best-social-sciences-and-humanities-schools-rankings). The schools that you should aim for will depend entirely on your performance in your coursework, so it would be impossible for us to recommend anything at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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