PhD in Economics realistic?

[ymyk]

Hi, nice to join this forum.

 

I am a senior graduating in May from a top 30 undergrad, majoring in Economics and minoring in Mathematics.

 

I intend to work for a few years, enter a master's program in applied math or statistics, and some day, I dream of getting into a PhD program in Economics.

 

I have a 3.3 overall GPA (with GPA in econ only slightly better- almost no different).

 

Now, from browsing this forum, I understand that I don't have a shot at top 20. (and maybe 30?).

 

Can I realistically get into a respectable (for lack of a better word, worth my time?) PhD program after master's?

 

My primary motivation is that I actually really like the study of economics now (as opposed to freshman and sophomore year).

 

Any advice is welcome.

 

Thanks.

[Prospectiv]

Hi, nice to join this forum.

 

I am a senior graduating in May from a top 30 undergrad, majoring in Economics and minoring in Mathematics.

 

I intend to work for a few years, enter a master's program in applied math or statistics, and some day, I dream of getting into a PhD program in Economics.

 

I have a 3.3 overall GPA (with GPA in econ only slightly better- almost no different).

 

Now, from browsing this forum, I understand that I don't have a shot at top 20. (and maybe 30?).

 

Can I realistically get into a respectable (for lack of a better word, worth my time?) PhD program after master's?

 

My primary motivation is that I actually really like the study of economics now (as opposed to freshman and sophomore year).

 

Any advice is welcome.

 

Thanks.

 

HI there,

 

Posting your math classes taken/score would be helpful, as well as research experience and those professors who will be writing your letter!

 

Good luck!

[gradhope]

I think it is possible.

A masters should be good for you application.

Many programs in the T50-70 range can be very good if you work hard.

 

You can find many profiles on this forum that got into econ a bit late and still got into some good programs after MA, grad/additional classes/RA work.

[Catrina]

Can you post your full profile, as done in other threads? The information provided is not sufficient for us to answer you.

[ymyk]

Undergrad: Top 20 in Econ

Undergrad GPA: 3.3> (finishing up my final semester)

Econ Courses: Intro I (A-), Intro II (B+), Intermediate Micro (A), Intermediate Macro (B), Econometrics (A), Industrial Organization (B+), Public Economics (B), Statistics (B-), Financial Economics (B), History (B), taking International Economics (probably A)

Math Courses: Calc I (A-), Calc II (A), Calc III (A), Linear Algebra (A)

 

I intend to go into the Actuarial profession for a few years before applying for a master's program in applied math and/or statistics.

 

What I want to know is if I work hard, is there a possibility that I can make a decent PhD program in Economics?

[Catrina]

Are you intending on taking more math? You don't have nearly enough math for an applied math or statistics masters program.

[ymyk]

I see. My fault for not seeing how all this works. I had the impression that these math courses with econ courses would be enough. I am a senior now graduating soon, so can't take any more math courses but If I really want a masters program in applied math or stats, what can I do? Thanks for your patience.

[yankeefan]

Since you seem averse to using the search function, I've decided to go ahead and use it for you. Here is a thread that should be of some interest to you - http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/150843-can-i-get-back-track-how.html

 

If your goal is ultimately to get into an Economics PhD program, I recommend getting a masters in economics rather than applied math or statistics. This will allow you to fix your GPA, get research experience & LORs (from economists) all in one swoop. More info can be found in the thread link above, or via the search function.

[ymyk]

Thanks for the recommendation, yankeefan. I guess didn't know where to start. I will do more research on my own from now.

 

But if you can bear with me, if I really want to study statistics for my master's. Would that detract from my chances at a respectable phd in econ?

 

What if I get two masters: say, one in stats and the other in economics (for the LORs and other benefits you speak of). Would doing great in two masters programs increase my odds at a good phd program in economics?

 

Thanks for the great ideas. I also would like to say that it's great to join this forum.

[Catrina]

Doing well in a masters in stat probably will help you, but I can't imagine that you will get into one, much less do well in it. The extent of your stat background is one econometrics course and a stat course that you got a B- in. I doubt that my school's stat program would let you in, and it is pretty low-ranked. Also, how exactly do you expect to handle measure-theoretic probability without having taken a single proof-based course?

 

You certainly wouldn't have a chance at getting into the math program (my school offers a masters in math and a PhD in applied math) without real analysis, and wouldn't be likely to get admitted without two semesters of it. Even if you would somehow get in, you wouldn't survive the first semester. In fact, I would say that it would be hard to do well in it without a full undergraduate math major with a lot of electives (PDEs, complex analysis, etc.)

 

What I would recommend that you do is go to an economics masters program, and take courses from the math and stat department while you are there. It is common for programs to allow you to take electives in other departments. However, you really need to take undergraduate real analysis before taking any graduate math classes or any theoretical probability or statistics classes.

[ymyk]

Thanks a lot.

It's just that most "requirements" for admission into master's program in statistics only required three semester of calculus, linear algebra, and a calculus-based probability course. I guess this is just that- "requirement". I understand that I need more than that to be competitive. I took that statistics course, in which I got a b-, in my freshman year when my head wasn't in it. I I know that my coursework in math and statistics is very limited, but towards the end of college, I have taken an interest in math and stats (from experiences, actuarial exams, etc). I thought that studying math or stats more extensively would provide a great foundation for future studies of economics.

 

Ok, so from all the inputs, I gather that I should take a course in real analysis before applying to an economics masters program.

[yankeefan]

Thanks for the recommendation, yankeefan. I guess didn't know where to start. I will do more research on my own from now.

 

But if you can bear with me, if I really want to study statistics for my master's. Would that detract from my chances at a respectable phd in econ?

 

What if I get two masters: say, one in stats and the other in economics (for the LORs and other benefits you speak of). Would doing great in two masters programs increase my odds at a good phd program in economics?

 

Thanks for the great ideas. I also would like to say that it's great to join this forum.

 

What is your end goal? I can't understand why somebody would want to get two masters degrees, especially when your goal is to earn a PhD eventually. It seems like a lot of years of unnecessary schooling. Do you want to become an academic and/or policy researcher? Are you interested in working for the government or some multilateral NGO? Do you want to go on wall st and make 250k+? These are questions that you need to answer before you go down the PhD path. Its hard to imagine somebody being simultaneously interested in actuarial work and a Economics PhD. It kinda tells me that you don't know much about one or the other. From the outside they may seem similar but up close they are largely orthogonal.

[yankeefan]

Thanks a lot.

It's just that most "requirements" for admission into master's program in statistics only required three semester of calculus, linear algebra, and a calculus-based probability course. I guess this is just that- "requirement". I understand that I need more than that to be competitive. I took that statistics course, in which I got a b-, in my freshman year when my head wasn't in it. I I know that my coursework in math and statistics is very limited, but towards the end of college, I have taken an interest in math and stats (from experiences, actuarial exams, etc). I thought that studying math or stats more extensively would provide a great foundation for future studies of economics.

 

Ok, so from all the inputs, I gather that I should take a course in real analysis before applying to an economics masters program.

 

The type of math and stats that actuaries do is very different from what you will do in an economics PhD. In fact, the type of math/stats that actuaries use is very different from what the modal statistician does (I should thread lightly here - there is a lot of heterogeneity in the type of work that statisticians do). Actuaries always tell people that their job isn't a math/stats job, but rather a finance job that just happens to use a lot of math. Its a subtle but important distinction.

[Catrina]

Thanks a lot.

It's just that most "requirements" for admission into master's program in statistics only required three semester of calculus, linear algebra, and a calculus-based probability course. I guess this is just that- "requirement". I understand that I need more than that to be competitive. I took that statistics course, in which I got a b-, in my freshman year when my head wasn't in it. I I know that my coursework in math and statistics is very limited, but towards the end of college, I have taken an interest in math and stats (from experiences, actuarial exams, etc). I thought that studying math or stats more extensively would provide a great foundation for future studies of economics.

 

Ok, so from all the inputs, I gather that I should take a course in real analysis before applying to an economics masters program.

 

You don't need real analysis for an economics masters program, but it is very useful at the PhD level (and borderline required for the top-30). Your math background is fine for an economics masters, although I would recommend that you take undergraduate real analysis while enrolled in the MA.

 

Regarding stat programs, I would assume that you need a calc-based probability theory/statistics sequence for admission, and unless I'm missing something, you don't have that. Of course, they probably would be willing to waive that for someone with a very strong math background, but you don't have one. You could always take an upper-level probability/statistics sequence, and probably real analysis too, as a non-degree-seeking student, then apply to a stat masters afterwards. However, there is no reason why you can't take graduate statistics courses while enrolled in an economics masters program.

 

An applied math masters would require more outside preparation, and I wouldn't recommend that you attempt it. While you could probably get somewhere to admit you with just real analysis, I wouldn't recommend doing that as you would be starting off at a big disadvantage relative to the math majors in your class.

 

Also, I'm really surprised that you could get a math minor without taking real analysis. Does your school not require it?

[yankeefan]

The Stats MA at my school only requires 3 semesters of calculus & liner algebra for admission so the OP could presumably get in, but its also not a very good program. Maybe there might be other programs out there that are better but have similar admission requirements. You can simply check the admission requirements of a random stats program close to your location to get a feel of what you might need to get admitted, if you choose to go that route.

[Catrina]

The Stats MA at my school only requires 3 semesters of calculus & liner algebra for admission so the OP could presumably get in, but its also not a very good program. Maybe there might be other programs out there that are better but have similar admission requirements. You can simply check the admission requirements of a random stats program close to your location to get a feel of what you might need to get admitted, if you choose to go that route.

 

They don't require any statistics background?

 

I checked my school's website. It doesn't list any official course requirements, but rather says that prospective students should "have earned the equivalent of a bachelor’s or master’s degree in mathematics, statistics or in other mathematically oriented disciplines." I still can't imagine that our stat program would admit someone without the equivalent of an upper-level year-long probability and statistics sequence.

[yankeefan]

They don't require any statistics background?

 

I checked my school's website. It doesn't list any official course requirements, but rather says that prospective students should "have earned the equivalent of a bachelor’s or master’s degree in mathematics, statistics or in other mathematically oriented disciplines." I still can't imagine that our stat program would admit someone without the equivalent of an upper-level year-long probability and statistics sequence.

 

Everybody who enters our program has to take a year long sequence in probability theory and math stats; these are essentially upper-level undergrad classes that have been cross-listed as graduate classes. Those registered for the grad class sit in the same class as the undergrads but get extra hw and a harder test. They also offer a seperate math stats class just for grad students, which I took and ended up dropping because it was absolutely brutal.

[Catrina]

Everybody who enters our program has to take a year long sequence in probability theory and math stats; these are essentially upper-level undergrad classes that have been cross-listed as graduate classes. Those registered for the grad class sit in the same class as the undergrads but get extra hw and a harder test. They also offer a seperate math stats class just for grad students, which I took and ended up dropping because it was absolutely brutal.

 

Oh, okay. At my school the statistics grad students take an entirely different first year sequence, that has the undergrad sequence as a prerequisite. They do offer a graduate sequence on the level of the undergraduate ones, but it is designed for people in other disciplines.