Georgetown vs Barcelona GSE

[Johnnie Walker]

Hi everybody, I am from Europe and am going to start a graduate program in Economics this coming fall. My interests are Development, Income Inequalities and Financial Development. So far I have received several admission offers, with Georgetown University and Barcelona GSE being objectively the best universities I have heard back from (even if I was also admitted into Bocconi PhD program, but already rejected it due to personal reasons). I have only few days to make a definitive decision (BGSE wants me to reply only by next Monday!), so now I desperately need your help in order to choose the best option between these two universities.

Georgetown allows me to enter directly into their PhD program, whereas BGSE forces me to attend and earn their 2-year Master first (which leads to 3 consequent years in which you exclusively do research and finally earn their doctorate degree). In some rankings Georgetown dominates BGSE, while the opposite is true in other rankings. For this reason, I would not rely too much on academic standing to prefer one to the other (or am I wrong?).

 

Finally, both of such offers are unfunded. I know this means I am into a quite difficult situation, but fortunately I think to be able to manage my first year of study thanks to my finances (I have been working for 1 year just to fund my future 1° year of Master/PhD). Once in one of these two universities, I will really commit myself to study hard so as to (hopefully) get some financial support from 2° year on.

I have not a clue about how Washington and Barcelone are, since I have visited none of them so far. I know Georgetown could maybe be better in placing me more easily into international institutions (like World Bank, International Monetary Fund and central banks), which represent my dream destination. Nevertheless, some of last BGSE Master and PhD graduates are now working in such institutions, so perhaps this is not a real point of distinction.

 

Any information/advice would be really welcome! Thanks in advance.

[pch]

Well, I do think that BGSE is a better school than Georgetown. But then, you already have PhD acceptance at Georgetown which is cool. Do you have guaranteed funding for years 2-5?

Keep in mind that, since you're European, you are eligible for study loans in Europe and not in the US.

[Johnnie Walker]

Hi pch, unfortunately nothing is sure about funding from 2° to 5° year at Georgetown. In the email I have received from the university nothing was clearly mentioned about this. Anyway, browsing several websites I have discovered that the number of first-year PhD candidates decreases a lot after first-year exams and this happens almost every year (it is the so called "high attrition rate"). So the ones who strive hard and finally pass the first-year general exams turn out to be so few in September of 2° year that almost all of them get financial support. Of course, these are only "the rumors in the forums", no absolute certainty of the trustworthiness of what I have just said. Hope to find some Georgetown insiders in this forum.

 

Btw, thank you so much for your contribution!

[PhDPlease]

I would get clarification from both schools on the policy for getting funding in years 2+. Is it guaranteed if you achieve some sort of mark (ie certain GPA, pass qualifying exams, otherwise remain in good standing), or is there a chance they would not fund you even if you have good achievement?

 

Also I think in the US it is standard to have 2 years of coursework and then 3+ years of research and refer to the whole thing as a PhD (even if you are awarded a masters part way through), while in Europe it is sometimes common to separate the 1st part as the masters and the 2nd part as the PhD. Therefore I'm not sure that Georgetown would actually be a shorter time to graduate unless they are giving you some sort of coursework waiver?

[PhDPlease]

Also the cost of living around Georgetown is very high (due to expensive housing). (Not familiar with Europe so no idea about cost of living at BGSE.)

[Johnnie Walker]

I would get clarification from both schools on the policy for getting funding in years 2+. Is it guaranteed if you achieve some sort of mark (ie certain GPA, pass qualifying exams, otherwise remain in good standing), or is there a chance they would not fund you even if you have good achievement?

 

Also I think in the US it is standard to have 2 years of coursework and then 3+ years of research and refer to the whole thing as a PhD (even if you are awarded a masters part way through), while in Europe it is sometimes common to separate the 1st part as the masters and the 2nd part as the PhD. Therefore I'm not sure that Georgetown would actually be a shorter time to graduate unless they are giving you some sort of coursework waiver?

 

I understand what you mean and agree with you about the time to potentially spend on each program. My intention is to obtain a PhD degree, so if I decided to go for BGSE, I would be quite obliged to stay there to earn the doctorate degree at BGSE. In fact, going somewhere else after the Master (for example applying for a US PhD) would mean losing 2 more years, studying more or less the same stuff a second time in the first 2 years of PhD coursework...and obviously I don't like it.

 

Totally agree with you about the need to have more information about funding policies in years 2-5! And thanks for everything!

[pch]

You know, I think it would be risky to go to Georgetown without guaranteed funding after year 1. Because even if they say that you "almost certainly" get funding, that's still not good enough. I would strongly discourage you from going there without a clear info on what requirements are there to be met for you to get funding after year 1.

It's not like anything is guaranteed at Barcelona but I think you'd still have more options after year 1 in Barcelona than after year 1 at Georgetown, should you not get funded.

I would also guess that Barcelona is cheaper (both as a city and program) and you would probably qualify for the new Erasmus+ master student loan guarantee scheme which allows to borrow up to 12k Euro for 1 year or 18k Euro for two years of study in another EU country at a favorable sub-market interest rate.

[Cerealist]

PhDPlease, everyone I know who have been to Barca absolutely loved it. I'm also pretty sure that your cost of living in barca would be considerably below that of D.C// the GT area. The UPF/BGSE PhD program is also very well recognized. I don't think many people without a preference for living in the US would choose GT > Barca for a PhD, or for a masters if they intended to do a PhD later.

 

Note that someone on this forum with more knowledge about the BGSE program said that it was typical to do the masters over 1 year, then spend a certain amount of time working as an RA while preparing applications for PhD programs. Unless you get into and decide to go to UPF for your PhD having some extra time is advantageous.

[Econhead]

You know, I think it would be risky to go to Georgetown without guaranteed funding after year 1. Because even if they say that you "almost certainly" get funding, that's still not good enough. I would strongly discourage you from going there without a clear info on what requirements are there to be met for you to get funding after year 1.

It's not like anything is guaranteed at Barcelona but I think you'd still have more options after year 1 in Barcelona than after year 1 at Georgetown, should you not get funded.

I would also guess that Barcelona is cheaper (both as a city and program) and you would probably qualify for the new Erasmus+ master student loan guarantee scheme which allows to borrow up to 12k Euro for 1 year or 18k Euro for two years of study in another EU country at a favorable sub-market interest rate.

 

 

Let me start by saying that I know nothing about the amount of funding at Georgetown other than what has been states in this thread. That said, I think that OP should seek to find out more information. There is at least one other program that comes to mind in the US where 'funding is not guaranteed' but according to grad students is 'effectively guaranteed.' Certainly by year two if not during year 1. I think OP should ask them what % of students do not receive funding during year 1 and what % do not receive funding during years 2-5. The lack of 'guarantee' sounds like a legal response more than anything else, because there is some small amount of uncertainty at their department just like at many where TA positions are 'virtually guaranteed.'

[Johnnie Walker]

Let me start by saying that I know nothing about the amount of funding at Georgetown other than what has been states in this thread. That said, I think that OP should seek to find out more information. There is at least one other program that comes to mind in the US where 'funding is not guaranteed' but according to grad students is 'effectively guaranteed.' Certainly by year two if not during year 1. I think OP should ask them what % of students do not receive funding during year 1 and what % do not receive funding during years 2-5. The lack of 'guarantee' sounds like a legal response more than anything else, because there is some small amount of uncertainty at their department just like at many where TA positions are 'virtually guaranteed.'

 

I believe you are totally right, Econhead and pch, about the "guaranteed/not officially guaranteed (even if implicitly guaranteed) funding" issue. Every university understandably aims to be as vague as possible when it comes to talk about money, especially if the person they are talking with has not been considered eligible for funding by themselves from the very first moment (because of his/her not-so-excellent profile, I clearly suppose...).

 

Anyway, yesterday I followed PhDPlease's first advice and asked both universities via email how their respective funding policies work, pointing out which specific requirement to be met (i.e. first-year final GPA, the general "good standing" or whatever) each of them used to mainly consider in their funding process. None of them have replied yet (I know, it's Easter time for everyone...), but I will keep you updated about this (and will try to clarify the "% of unfunded students" issue raised by Econhead just after receiving their responses).

 

Taking into account what you all have written so far, I admit to be more and more inclined to accept BGSE's offer. All in all, I would have a better place (in Cerealist's opinion), where facing a lower cost of living (according to all of you) and without being penalized in terms of reputation of the selected university (as Cerealist wrote). Any opinion about the two faculties? At Georgetown there would be Martin Ravallion (a guru of Income Inequalities) and Garance Genicot (Development), whereas at BGSE I would find Joan Esteban (very known for his studies on Development), Alessandro Tarozzi, Giacomo De Giorgi (both Development), Alessandra Bonfiglioli and Giacomo Ponzetto (both Income Inequalities). Did I miss some great name?

 

I am going to take one last night to think about all you have already told me and tomorrow (or on Monday morning at the latest) will choose where to spend my next years. Thank you all for your huge help!

[Johnnie Walker]

For what it can worth, few days ago I was told by one from UAB (i.e. Universitàt Autonoma de Barcelona) Admissions Office that there are currently full fellowships granted to all third-year, fourth-year and fifth-year students, whereas funds available for Master (first-year and second-year) students are extremely limited owing to "exougenous circumstances". I suppose they are coping with very scarce funds from the Spanish government...No reply from Georgetown instead. But I already accepted the BGSE offer and do not care anymore about what happens in Washington DC.

 

Thank you all guys! ¡nos vemos!

[Johnnie Walker]

I thought the post above would have been my last one in this thread, until an unexpected email came two days ago completely out of the blue...This email says I have been admitted to the MSc in Economics at University of Wisconsin Madison. It is an unfunded offer and the annual tuition fees are pretty high (about $ 45k), but I think I can manage this financial issue. I am concerned about timing instead. Does anybody know if, once earned the MSc at UMW, I could apply for the UWM PhD and be exempted from attending courses of the doctorate's first year/two years (which basically mean pure coursework)? Spending other two years after the MSc studying again more or less the same stuff is something I would definitely avoid and a negative response to such a question would lead me to automatically turn this MSc admission offer down. What do you think about? Thank you in advance.

[remarquable]

It is hard to tell whether UMW masters have good placement among US PhD programs since this MSc was initiated just 2 years ago and no graduates are recorded yet. In many cases a department offers different courses to master and PhD candidates( PhD courses are tougher, of course), and I am not sure if UMW provides PhD- level courses to MSc program, just as BGSE does. If not, maybe the exemption cannot be done.

BTW, I was also admitted to BGSE and hopefully I will go there.