Is program ranking that important past the top 30?

[Lhasa1951]

So, for personal reasons, I could not move to attend a higher ranked PhD program in economics, but there are two schools in my current city. One is #56 out of 100 and the other is #94 out of 100. (econphd.net). I got into both, but I only received a full funding offer and TA position from the #94 school. At the #56 school, I'd be on the hook for $32,000 in tuition, with the "possibility" of being funded for the second year.

 

Of course the programs have different strengths. The #56 appears to be best in microeconomic theory, with a few notable macroeconomists and one time series specialist. #94 appears to be better in econometrics in general. I'm hoping to become an applied econometrician, with a broader emphasis in time series analysis, so #94 seems to be a good fit.

 

My question is -- does it really matter if the school is 56 or 94? Once you get past top 30, is it the work you do while in the program--publishing, conferences, etc etc--what matters on your CV? My ultimate aim is a tenure track position at a research university -- or ANY institution where I can do research that interests me.

 

I should also mention that the #94 school is my undergrad, so I will be attending the same school for my undergraduate as I will for my PhD. I understand that this is becoming less of an issue these days, but I imagine that eventually I'll have to find a good postdoc program for about a year to make up for it.

 

Thoughts?

 

I'd really appreciate some feedback.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Lhasa1951

[Kaysa]

What are the tenure track placements like at these two institutions?

[Lhasa1951]

#56 school for 2010-2013:

 

Research Institute of Economics and Management, Southwestern University of Finance and Economics

Madras School of Economics

University of Aberdeen

Lecturer, School of Economic, Political and Policy Sciences, University of Texas at Dallas, Dallas, TX

Assistant Professor, Department of Economics, Auburn University, Auburn, AL

Assistant Professor, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC

Senior Lecturer, Department of Economics, Southern Methodist University

Visiting Assistant Professor, the University of Memphis, TN

 

#94 for 2010-2013:

 

Department of Economics, State Univeristy of New York at Purchase

University of Tulsa

University of Melbourne, Victoria Australia

Economics Department of Bridgewater State University - Massachusetts

Edinboro University - PA

Visiting Professor, Virginia Tech

The University of Texas at Arlington

Shanghai Jiao Tong University/Antai College of Economics & Management - CHINA

[pch]

Are u talking about Arizona State and Mannheim?

[adam12]

Are u talking about Arizona State and Mannheim?

 

I think OP is talking about SMU and UT-Dallas, though where OP's rankings came from I have no idea - it's not the econphd.net overall rankings.

 

 

At the #56 school, I'd be on the hook for $32,000 in tuition, with the "possibility" of being funded for the second year.

...

My question is -- does it really matter if the school is 56 or 94? Once you get past top 30, is it the work you do while in the program--publishing, conferences, etc etc--what matters on your CV? My ultimate aim is a tenure track position at a research university -- or hell, ANY institution where I can do research that interests me.

...

Thoughts? I'd really appreciate some feedback.

 

I would say ranking still matters though it has decreasing marginal importance the farther one is from the top. Strength in particular fields becomes increasingly important - at least that's my perception. If you look at top placements from lower-ranked programs the students' primary fields more often corresponded to their departments' comparative advantage.

 

But, the key thing about your situation seems to be funding. If funding isn't available first year and not guaranteed thereafter, that's a difference between the two programs of around $50K per year for four to six years. If the department won't invest in you they obviously don't think you can succeed in the program and won't go out of their way to help you do so. Generally speaking, I don't think it's ever a smart idea to accept an offer without a guarantee of funding at some point.

[Kaysa]

#56 school for 2010-2013:

 

Research Institute of Economics and Management, Southwestern University of Finance and Economics

Madras School of Economics

University of Aberdeen

Lecturer, School of Economic, Political and Policy Sciences, University of Texas at Dallas, Dallas, TX

Assistant Professor, Department of Economics, Auburn University, Auburn, AL

Assistant Professor, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC

Senior Lecturer, Department of Economics, Southern Methodist University

Visiting Assistant Professor, the University of Memphis, TN

 

#94 for 2010-2013:

 

Department of Economics, State Univeristy of New York at Purchase

University of Tulsa

University of Melbourne, Victoria Australia

Economics Department of Bridgewater State University - Massachusetts

Edinboro University - PA

Visiting Professor, Virginia Tech

The University of Texas at Arlington

Shanghai Jiao Tong University/Antai College of Economics & Management - CHINA

Unless I am missing something, given those placements and your funding situation, the #94 school sounds like the smart choice.

[subasa228]

I am going to SMU this fall. I believe the department offers assistantships to all students who pass 1st-year qualifying exams, so you only need to pay 1st year expense at SMU. However, I am not sure if its worth to spend 50k to choose SMU over UT- Dallas. If your research interest is monetary econ, SMU may be much better choice for you. Otherwise, UT-Dallas is a good choice for financial econ and experimental econ. It has really strong business school, so I can see opportunities to do research with finance and marketing departments. I heard some SMU students have been taking classes in UT- Dallas business school.

[Lhasa1951]

I am going to SMU this fall. I believe the department offers assistantships to all students who pass 1st-year qualifying exams, so you only need to pay 1st year expense at SMU. However, I am not sure if its worth to spend 50k to choose SMU over UT- Dallas. If your research interest is monetary econ, SMU may be much better choice for you. Otherwise, UT-Dallas is a good choice for financial econ and experimental econ. It has really strong business school, so I can see opportunities to do research with finance and marketing departments. I heard some SMU students have been taking classes in UT- Dallas business school.

 

Hah! Yes, these are exactly the schools that I am referring to. Congrats on your placement there, and thanks for answering my questions!

 

Yes, on the website it says "it is their consistent practice" to fund all students who pass 1st year, but I didn't interpret this language as a guarantee of funding. I also couldn't justify the pricetag since the placement records for both schools seem about neck and neck, with SMU having perhaps the best placement record of the two if you factor in Auburn.

 

In any case I am interested in the spatial econometrics partnership with their GIS program, as well as some of the specialized econometrics course offerings, so I think I'll fit into the UT-Dallas program quite nicely. Although, I think they closed down their experimental economics lab a few years ago. I think SMU still has an active one?

 

 

P.S., I am using econphd.net's rankings, but I cut out all of the international schools and only looked at domestic programs.

[pch]

I thought Singapore is usually quite generous on funding. There should be a very good chance of getting funding in year 2, if not in the first year. Can you possibly try to negotiate with them?

[Lhasa1951]

I thought Singapore is usually quite generous on funding. There should be a very good chance of getting funding in year 2, if not in the first year. Can you possibly try to negotiate with them?

 

 

SMU in this case = Southern Methodist University ;)

[pch]

SMU in this case = Southern Methodist University ;)

 

Oww, OK, i see. I thought you meant Singapore Management University, especially since they're quite strong in metrics :p

[subasa228]

Hah! Yes, these are exactly the schools that I am referring to. Congrats on your placement there, and thanks for answering my questions!

 

Yes, on the website it says "it is their consistent practice" to fund all students who pass 1st year, but I didn't interpret this language as a guarantee of funding. I also couldn't justify the pricetag since the placement records for both schools seem about neck and neck, with SMU having perhaps the best placement record of the two if you factor in Auburn.

 

In any case I am interested in the spatial econometrics partnership with their GIS program, as well as some of the specialized econometrics course offerings, so I think I'll fit into the UT-Dallas program quite nicely. Although, I think they closed down their experimental economics lab a few years ago. I think SMU still has an active one?

 

 

P.S., I am using econphd.net's rankings, but I cut out all of the international schools and only looked at domestic programs.

 

I forgot that you did undergraduate at UT Dallas. If you feel good about the department I dont see any problem for you to attend their PhD program. The department definitely has some top-notch professors. My only concern is that UT Dallas is not one of five universities (UT Austin, Rice, Houston, SMU, Texas A&M) that participate in Texas Econometrics Camp.(some potential connection problems?) Why dont you talk with your advisor or DGS about this situation? He/She may know much more than us about two programs. About funding, you can talk with SMU DGS. Given their small class size, I dont think you have any problems getting fund in 2nd year.

[Lhasa1951]

I forgot that you did undergraduate at UT Dallas. If you feel good about the department I dont see any problem for you to attend their PhD program. The department definitely has some top-notch professors. My only concern is that UT Dallas is not one of five universities (UT Austin, Rice, Houston, SMU, Texas A&M) that participate in Texas Econometrics Camp.(some potential connection problems?) Why dont you talk with your advisor or DGS about this situation? He/She may know much more than us about two programs. About funding, you can talk with SMU DGS. Given their small class size, I dont think you have any problems getting fund in 2nd year.

 

Yes -- I feel good about the program. My main concern would be that it'd be harder to find placement in a tenure track position because I went to the same school for PhD as undergraduate. But like I said, maybe a postdoc experience could make up for this fact.

 

I did not realize they did not participate in the econometrics camp. I wonder if that can change? I have a great zeal for going to panel presentation-type conferences, so I had already planned to submit my work a bunch of conferences on the AES's conference listing page. So I'm sure I'll get plenty of contacts at these, but local Texas based contacts would be a plus.

[subasa228]

Yes -- I feel good about the program. My main concern would be that it'd be harder to find placement in a tenure track position because I went to the same school for PhD as undergraduate. But like I said, maybe a postdoc experience could make up for this fact.

 

I did not realize they did not participate in the econometrics camp. I wonder if that can change? I have a great zeal for going to panel presentation-type conferences, so I had already planned to submit my work a bunch of conferences on the AES's conference listing page. So I'm sure I'll get plenty of contacts at these, but local Texas based contacts would be a plus.

 

There is always a opportunity cost to attend the same school as undergraduate, however, you also have some advantages compare to students enter program from elsewhere. Giving our schools are out of top 50, I think the most important factor to get a tenure track in research universities is to have a outstanding job market paper (individual publication in good journal is also a big plus). It is a result of your knowledge, research skills, commitment and good advisor. You already have some connections with professors at your current school, so I believe you know who your potential advisor is (your recommendation writer?)

 

I have no idea why your school does not participate in that econometric camp. You can ask your econometrics professor about that. They may plan to participate in the future. Regarding experimental econ, I dont know more than you about that field at your school. I took a look at UT Dallas job market candidates, and most of them have experimental econ as a field. Good business schools usually provide opportunities to conduct experimental econ research. In my opinion, econometrics and experimental is a good combination.