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Very strong econ/math student looking for grad school advice


tualatin

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This is sort of a profile evaluation thread, so I apologize in advance! I'm in my final year of a combined degree in economics and mathematics at a Canadian school, and I have been planning on graduate school for over a year. Specifically, my plan has been to get an MA in economics at a Canadian school then to enter the workforce. I've entertained the idea of pursuing a PhD without much seriousness, but for various reasons I've been thinking about it more recently. I could do a PhD after getting a Master's (which I would get ideally at one of the top Canadian programs), but I've also been advised just to apply this year straight out of undergrad. My profile has some real strengths (as well as weaknesses) but I'm unsure how it stacks up. Here are my questions:

 

If I were to apply to PhD programs for 2015, what range of schools could I reasonably aim for? Do I have a chance at top ten?

Would it help or hurt (or neither) to have a Master's degree and apply in 2016?

Is it a mistake to be thinking about a PhD if I'm unsure what I want to research?

 

While I'm grateful for any thoughts, I'd really like to hear from those of you who have a background in economics or math and have been accepted into graduate economics programs. Thanks for the help! Profile is below.

 

PROFILE:

Type of Undergrad: BA Honours Econ / BSc General Math at large Canadian school

Undergrad GPA: 3.98 / 4.00

Type of Grad: -

Grad GPA: -

GRE: 170Q / 170V / 5.5 AWA

Math Courses: Calc I-IV (A or A+ in all); Linear Algebra I,II (A, A+); Probability (A+), Mathematical Statistics (A+), Optimization (A+), ODE (A), Real Analysis (in progress), Complex Analysis (in progress), Mathematical topics for economics (in progress)

Econ Courses (grad-level): -

Econ Courses (undergrad-level): Usual suspects + full year of mathematical economics, two extra semesters of econometrics, year of micro/macro theory (in progress) for honours requirements. A- in a non-core econ course, otherwise A/A+.

Other Courses: First year comp sci; nothing notable.

Letters of Recommendation: Haven't spoken to them yet, but one Yale PhD who knows me well, a prof at another school I'm collaborating with on a paper (see below), and a math prof I did summer research with (see below).

Research Experience: Summer math research in optimization related to economics. Also currently co-authoring a paper with an econ professor at another school (long story).

Teaching Experience: -

Research Interests: Honestly not sure. Possibly health economics.

SOP: Not composed yet.

Concerns: Not a lot of real research, not sure on letters, no graduate courses, not coming from a well-known school.

Other: I have very broad academic interests. I'm a fairly experienced writer. Associated with a few online newspapers and blogs as a contributor and editor. Very well-versed in public policy/legal issues, and I'm presenting a resolution at a party policy convention this month.

Applying to: ???

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It's not like you have no research experience, but you don't have a clear dedication to research either. I think you should give some thought to what it means to spend 4-6 years training to be a researcher. In that time, with your profile, you could have a top-flight MBA or MA in Finance and be pulling down really good money. I could see you going into tech, media, government. You have a lot of good options so you should explore them all and not be in a rush to take on a significant commitment if you are not sure about it. If I were you I would look for a research job and think about applying for 2016. It will only strengthen your application no matter what advanced degree you decide to pursue. You have the stats where you could reasonably target research opportunities that fit a specific interest, and in a years time you could demonstrate a really strong direction for research. Think using online media to improve health outcomes or influence health policy. I bet there's someone working on it.
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Glad you liked the post. Obviously you're probably not going to be able to find an adequate job researching market implications of the ice bucket challenge, but I'm guessing you could find something at the intersection of tech, media, health and economics or at least at the intersection of one of those things. Branch out to a few areas of interest and your odds are increased. This is the kind of strategy you could pursue and the kind of thought process that will be valuable to develop.
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If I were to apply to PhD programs for 2015, what range of schools could I reasonably aim for? Do I have a chance at top ten?

 

I would apply to every school ranked between 1-30 that you would like to go to.

 

 

Would it help or hurt (or neither) to have a Master's degree and apply in 2016?

 

It would only marginally help your application.

Is it a mistake to be thinking about a PhD if I'm unsure what I want to research?

 

Absolutely not. Most people don't, and to be honest, those that think they do are usually the most clueless.

 

The question you should ask yourself is whether completing a phd program can provide you with an invaluable career or career path that you could not get without completing a phd.

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OP, I agree with Kaysa that you are already in good shape to apply directly to PhD programs. What may be uncertain is how adcoms will perceive your school (if as you say it's not a especially well-known school). So it's probably wise to be a little diverse in choosing where to apply, without straying too far below the top 20. Try to find out if your school (or letter writers) has placed well into PhD programs in the past, that can also help you decide which range to target. The value of an MA may be somewhat limited in your case since your grades are strong and your rec letters will probably not dramatically improve by starting an MA; even so, there is nothing to stop you from throwing in a couple of MA applications, just to give yourself backup/exit options.
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A question that might be unrelated: I feel a little odd with saying things like "very strong" by myself. It might be culture difference. Is it general to sell onself in this way in an application in US? Or we should avoid such kind of statement in application? Thanks for information.
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Lets say you are coming from a small UG department with no phd program. You want to research with a well-published prof somewhere, but you have a specific sub-discipline in mind such as social choice theory. What would you do?

 

You are out of luck unless you know someone that can introduce you.

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Anyways, people talk a lot about doing a 5th year RA, but I've never seen any discussion of the process for seeking those out. Can anyone describe the process?

 

You can find lots of job openings on the nber website. They post tons of positions that you can apply to. The professors are also (mostly) at top tier places and include JBC medal winners. The general process is you apply and go through a couple of stages**:

 

1) If they like your app and see rigorous quant courses, they will send you a mini project (a day in the life sort of thing) to test your data skills.

2) If they like your program, you get an actual interview.

3) If they like you, you get a job.

 

Link for the lazy: Employment and Fellowship Opportunities

 

There are also tons of research assistant positions at the regional feds. The only one that I have checked out that does not offer a RA position for a fresh college grad is the Minneapolis Fed.

 

**This was my general experience and may not be the same for everyone**

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A question that might be unrelated: I feel a little odd with saying things like "very strong" by myself. It might be culture difference. Is it general to sell onself in this way in an application in US? Or we should avoid such kind of statement in application? Thanks for information.

 

I would avoid it. Some statements of this variety would be used to catch attention for, say, job search situations where there is large heterogeneity in backgrounds and skill sets. For econ admissions, they basically look at 1. math, 2. econ, 3. research experience/potential as a standard, and there is usually more than enough data and content about those in your applications, especially from experienced LOR writers, that you don't need to try to summarize or evaluate your own skill set. If you're very strong in math and econ, people will notice it.

 

On the other hand, if you have something more unusual, say, extremely strong programming skills in some language, or ability to read/work in natural languages like Spanish or Urdu (for those interested in doing development econ), that's something you can consider putting on your SOP or cv.

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You can find lots of job openings on the nber website. They post tons of positions that you can apply to. The professors are also (mostly) at top tier places and include JBC medal winners. The general process is you apply and go through a couple of stages**:

 

1) If they like your app and see rigorous quant courses, they will send you a mini project (a day in the life sort of thing) to test your data skills.

2) If they like your program, you get an actual interview.

3) If they like you, you get a job.

 

Link for the lazy: Employment and Fellowship Opportunities

 

There are also tons of research assistant positions at the regional feds. The only one that I have checked out that does not offer a RA position for a fresh college grad is the Minneapolis Fed.

 

**This was my general experience and may not be the same for everyone**

 

Although it seems odd to continue with something relatively off-topic in someone's profile evaluation thread, may I ask whether these opportunities are generally open to international applicants (who are in other countries)? Very hard to arrange interviews :O

Thanks in advance!

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Has anyone had any success with remote RA jobs?

 

Remote RA jobs? Like RA'ing at University of Alaska-Juno? (Joking, but could you clarify)

 

 

Although it seems odd to continue with something relatively off-topic in someone's profile evaluation thread, may I ask whether these opportunities are generally open to international applicants (who are in other countries)? Very hard to arrange interviews :O

Thanks in advance!

 

I do not know for sure, but I don't think that these positions really care for where the applicants are coming from - as long as they can show that there would not be any communication difficulties. Looking at the profiles of past RA's at Chicago's Initiative for Global Markets, there is close to a 50/50 split between internationals and Americans. The interviews would most likely be done over Skype* anyways as an in person interview would be extremely time consuming, especially during the academic year.

 

Link: Research - The Initiative on Global Markets

 

*Once again this was just my experience.

 

 

Thank you so much! That's very helpful. Any other sources for similar research-oriented positions?

 

I would go to all of the district bank websites and check out their junior economist research programs. Most of the banks do hire people fresh out of undergrad to more or less be RA's for their economists. Some of these programs can be really nice too as they may be in the rotation style system where you move between different research groups before settling. Besides central banks, there are also organizations like the CEA, BLS, and policy think tanks that hire college grads to work in a RA role.

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Remote as in an assistanship carried out via online correspondence.

 

I haven't heard of anything like this. Most positions that I have seen always require some sort of relocation. I think it would be pretty tough doing actual work under a professor (versus alongside, like co-authoring work) without any in person, face to face time. I have seen some summer REU programs that offer extended funding if you continue the research during the school year, but these would be side jobs and not full time post-graduation positions.

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Remote RA jobs? Like RA'ing at University of Alaska-Juno? (Joking, but could you clarify)

 

 

 

 

I do not know for sure, but I don't think that these positions really care for where the applicants are coming from - as long as they can show that there would not be any communication difficulties. Looking at the profiles of past RA's at Chicago's Initiative for Global Markets, there is close to a 50/50 split between internationals and Americans. The interviews would most likely be done over Skype* anyways as an in person interview would be extremely time consuming, especially during the academic year.

 

Link: Research - The Initiative on Global Markets

 

*Once again this was just my experience.

 

 

 

 

I would go to all of the district bank websites and check out their junior economist research programs. Most of the banks do hire people fresh out of undergrad to more or less be RA's for their economists. Some of these programs can be really nice too as they may be in the rotation style system where you move between different research groups before settling. Besides central banks, there are also organizations like the CEA, BLS, and policy think tanks that hire college grads to work in a RA role.

 

Thanks again! You really know a lot. But the places you said require US citizen. Is there any positions in companies that is related?

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Thanks again! You really know a lot. But the places you said require US citizen. Is there any positions in companies that is related?

 

Private based companies that aren't think tanks and do active economic research where you would get to work with publishing researchers? I am not aware of any. I would check out the IMF, Worldbank, ECB, and the rest of the European based banks for more options that would be open to internationals. If you do not mind me asking, from what part of the world do you hail from?

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