publicaffairsny Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 So I've been doing some more work building my profile for public administration and public policy admissions and I am also considering applying to 2 econ programs in the 50-75 range. The problem is econ applications are due in the fall while public administration is in February. I've been learning calculus with a tutor and will take the clep exam certifying knowledge of calc 1 so I can complete 2 and 3 in sequence over the summer at the cc along with micro 101 and macro 101. Fall semester I plan on math stats and quantitative methods independent study along with intermediate micro and a public administration course all at my school. Spring I will take linear and intermediate macro and get 3 credits for my thesis. While I think this sequence qualifies me for econ applications, I am concerned that I will only have calc 1-3 and intro econ under my belt at application. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryGriot Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I say this not knowing anything about where you are taking these courses or your analytical capabilities, or ability to pick up new material but... Skip micro 101 and macro 101 and go right to intermediate micro and macro over the summer. Or just take micro 101 during summer (skip macro) and get intermediate micro under your belt during the second summer term and intermediate macro during the fall. I went in as a post-bach at a top 60ish school for intermediate micro and macro along with prob theory and analysis over two summer semesters and did well, the last time taking anything econ related was AP HS 2003 and a business econ course in 2005. Intro econ courses will be a waste given the time crunch. Also definitely get linear into your fall sched to have the grade on your apps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Fall courses will show up on an app. I thought people were applying right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm_member Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Review of applications doesn't begin at most schools until after Christmas break and the annual AEA/ASSA conference. So, you can send an updated transcript. You would be best to skip right to intermediate classes as you aren't someone who is a college freshman finding their way. You'll probably need to get some kind of waiver for that, though. It would also help a lot to be able to show linear algebra on your transcript. More important than intro or intermediate macro. In fact, there are a lot of classes more useful for admission than macro given your goals (obviously don't say you want to do macro or trade or finance without macro coursework to judge that from). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 yeah, I'm applying to a program that is 100% applied micro and another program in my state capital that also has a strong applied micro focus. The way things break down I'm gonna have this summer to take calc 2 and 3 and an elective in my degree program, but I'd like to take 3 courses at a time and have no other options but intro micro/ macro (the calc and econ are both condensed half summer classes). This semester I'm taking 3 courses in my program and staying with my job. I'm gonna choose not to renew my contract in September and go full time with 4-5 classes. So according to that plan I will have 10 out of 13 classes in my program finished by the end of this summer along with a full calc sequence and intro macro-micro. I will have a quantitative methods independent study, public finance and my thesis remaining in my program and I will have room for between 5-7 courses before summer '16. Is there a better way to structure this time? (My college has a course called discrete math as a pre-req for linear. how should I build that in?) Any suggestions on how best to structure this time would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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publicaffairsny Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) deleted Edited November 18, 2014 by publicaffairsny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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publicaffairsny Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 I can also take any course at my ug alma mater which is top 20 econ top 30 overall for 3,000 each. The time lines all line up. not sure how I could work in that either of what cost benefit ratio would be in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm_member Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I can also take any course at my ug alma mater which is top 20 econ top 30 overall for 3,000 each. The time lines all line up. not sure how I could work in that either of what cost benefit ratio would be in play. You should list out the options open to you like this Option 1: This semester: Class X, Class Y Spring 2015: Class Z, Class Q Summer 2015 Class P, Class R, etc. Fall 2015: Applying to M schools in Econ and N in PA/PP {Explanation as to why you can't take an important class here.} Option 2: Alternatives {Conflicts that rule out important classes} Option 3: {Same stuff} It would help clarify much more than narrative paragraphs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'm thinking I'm gonna eat the cost of 5 or so courses at my alma mater. My professor was really looking askance at the idea of taking calc at the cc. He said it would maybe show ability but it was a pretty useless credential. So what I think I'm Gonna do is: Option 1: Summer '15. Calc 2/3 in sequence and Intermediate Micro at UG alma mater (Top 20 econ, Top 30 overall) Fall '15 Public Finance/ thesis in my program Math Stats and Discrete Math at current institution (public comprehensive) Intermediate Macro at UG Alma mater Spring '16 Linear, possibly Real Analysis at current institution Econometrics at UG AM Other suggestions? Public administration and policy programs will see the courses that i am enrolled in these semesters as apps are due in feb. But What about the econ programs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm_member Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Econ programs will see you are enrolled if you send an updated transcript but it's meaningless. You really need to somehow shift everything one semester closer in time or don't apply until Fall 2016. Again, Intermediate Macro can be dropped without any effect on your profile. A second class in econometrics would be much more helpful. Also taking linear algebra after calc 3 is kind of doing this backwards. If possible, the way you want to do this is Spring '15. Calc 2 Pre-req for Linear Algebra Intermediate Micro Summer '15 Public Finance/ thesis Math Stats Linear Algebra Calc 3 Fall '15 Real Analysis Econometrics Something useful Is that, or some version of it a possibility in any way? Real Analysis is useful as a signal for most people. Given your original timeline it won't be capable of being a signal and definitely won't be useful per se: I can't see you turning into a raging micro theorist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'm open to some possibilities. My mom might kill me for quitting my job early, but I would be willing to. Were I to quit my job a semester early I could envision a possibility such as: Spring 15 3 courses in degree program. Intermediate micro Discrete math (Linear Pre-req) Summer 15 Intermediate Macro Calc 2/3 Thesis Fall '15 Linear Econometrics Real Analysis Public Finance 1 other course Spring '16 How would I fill this in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm_member Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I'm open to some possibilities. My mom might kill me for quitting my job early, but I would be willing to. Were I to quit my job a semester early I could envision a possibility such as: Spring 15 3 courses in degree program. Intermediate micro Discrete math (Linear Pre-req) Summer 15 Intermediate Macro Calc 2/3 Thesis Fall '15 Linear Econometrics Real Analysis Public Finance 1 other course Spring '16 How would I fill this in? Spring 2016 Get a job through a temp agency or through your connections or even work at Starbucks. It's much more important to get that coursework done so that it can be seen by an adcom than delaying it to avoid having to work a crappy job for a few months to pay the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Just quit my job. Its on. I'm gonna take classes in that spring semester. I think I'm just gonna take some courses at my school since they are 2k cheaper than at my UG, and theres no benefit since they wont be taken into account. I'm gonna do the quantitatvie methods independent study probably, and a graduate class in the business department (they don't have an econ grad program) called economic analysis. I might take intermediate macro for the hell of it. Any suggestion on math courses that will help me in my graduate studies? The consensus is real analysis is a signal and not useful, so what would be useful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econhead Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Any suggestion on math courses that will help me in my graduate studies? The consensus is real analysis is a signal and not useful, so what would be useful? This is not exactly what TM meant. Real analysis is used extensively in first year coursework, and continues to be if you are doing micro theory. It's used less in other fields and outside of the first year courses, where proofs are traditionally used extensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Alright, sounds like im taking real analysis then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm_member Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 This is not exactly what TM meant. Real analysis is used extensively in first year coursework, and continues to be if you are doing micro theory. It's used less in other fields and outside of the first year courses, where proofs are traditionally used extensively. The OP is thinking of applying to lower ranked Econ programs, Real Analysis won't help too much in coursework there. It will be great to have it and will make life a little easier in first year but it's not really necessary at lower ranked schools. Think of it this way, the benefit of RA exceeds the cost, but other classes may help even more. At lower ranked schools, getting started on research early is very important and I would recommend taking classes that may require a significant research proposal of some sort. Classes like intermediate macro and real analysis wouldn't be top priority with your goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 I've already kind of got a research class. I'm doing an independent study next semester that involves field work in charter schools and the public school district. It entails four papers leading to leading to a research proposal that I can then carry out over the next year. My prof does applied econometrics for education policy so thats the kind of project I will be designing. As you know I am weird. Both my prof and I are odd birds in a non-academic department so he invests huge energy in contributing to my development. Over the summer he will be supervising my thesis which is an econometric study that builds on an NBER paper from 1999 on executive compensation for college presidents. We are looking at 1999-2009. Regardless of where I go I anticipate doing high level, rigorous work. I am at a disadvantage due to my academic history in terms of where I can get in, but I view that as a strength rather than a weakness. I'm not gonna limit my technical development because other students at what someone else determines as my level don't have the skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm_member Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I've already kind of got a research class. I'm doing an independent study next semester that involves field work in charter schools and the public school district. It entails four papers leading to leading to a research proposal that I can then carry out over the next year. My prof does applied econometrics for education policy so thats the kind of project I will be designing. As you know I am weird. Both my prof and I are odd birds in a non-academic department so he invests huge energy in contributing to my development. Over the summer he will be supervising my thesis which is an econometric study that builds on an NBER paper from 1999 on executive compensation for college presidents. We are looking at 1999-2009. Regardless of where I go I anticipate doing high level, rigorous work. I am at a disadvantage due to my academic history in terms of where I can get in, but I view that as a strength rather than a weakness. I'm not gonna limit my technical development because other students at what someone else determines as my level don't have the skills. This sounds great, but remember that Real Analysis is not and does not help with Econometrics. If you want to do rigorous yet applied work then Lin Alg II and a second metric class will help you much more than studying Borel Sets and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Econometrics II probably isnt an option. I'd have to take it at my UG which would cost the same as 3 classes at my current institution and I'm not gonna spend that on a course that wont show up on my transcript. My independent study that semester is gonna be "quantatative methods" so my prof is just gonna throw the most advanced econometrics at me that he can. I could take both RA and linear 2 without sacrificing any courses. Is intermediate macro really such a waste of time that I should potentially subsitute it with something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm_member Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Econometrics II probably isnt an option. I'd have to take it at my UG which would cost the same as 3 classes at my current institution and I'm not gonna spend that on a course that wont show up on my transcript. My independent study that semester is gonna be "quantatative methods" so my prof is just gonna throw the most advanced econometrics at me that he can. I could take both RA and linear 2 without sacrificing any courses. Is intermediate macro really such a waste of time that I should potentially subsitute it with something else? For most people, yeah. For you, definitely. It doesn't help with grad macro at all which is all about growth models and DSGE whereas intermediate macro is a hodge podge of monetary policy, trade, finance, national accounts and budgeting, inflation, etc. Here's a typical intermediate syllabus Introduction Chapter 1. The Science of Macroeconomics Chapter 2. The Data of Macroeconomics Classical Theory: The Economy in the Long Run Chapter 3. National Income Chapter 4. The Monetary System Chapter 5. Inflation Chapter 6. The Open Economy Chapter 7. Unemployment Business Cycle Theory: The Economy in the Short Run Chapter 10. Introduction to Economic Fluctuations Chapter 11. Aggregate Demand I Chapter 12. Aggregate Demand II Chapter 14. Aggregate Supply Macroeconomic Policy Debates Chapter 18. Stabilization Policy Chapter 19. Government Debt and Budget Deficits Chapter 20. The Financial System Growth Theory: The Economy in the Very Long Run Chapters 8-9. Economic Growth It's virtually useless for grad macro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 You don't think it might provide some necessary context? I mean they teach it for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 They teach it to show what macroeconomics is. But they do not touch on anything that you'll do in graduate school. It might help with some intuition, but you can pick that up by reading a textbook on your own... or read some book intended for the general public that explains macroeconomics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicaffairsny Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well, I'll probably have more insight when the time comes. Do I need math stats before econometrics? Would it be wrongheaded to take them concurrently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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