Jump to content
Urch Forums

Top 10 US PhD program placement in European departments


rawls234

Recommended Posts

I was looking through placements from the top 10 US PhD students and noticed that very little go on to work at European departments. I assume the reason behind this is that US PhD applications value US positions over European positions for a number of reasons. I'm wondering if anybody has any information on if it is harder/easier to land a position at one the top European departments coming from a top American PhD program (say Harvard, MIT, Princeton) versus a top European program
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was looking through placements from the top 10 US PhD students and noticed that very little go on to work at European departments. I assume the reason behind this is that US PhD applications value US positions over European positions for a number of reasons. I'm wondering if anybody has any information on if it is harder/easier to land a position at one the top European departments coming from a top American PhD program (say Harvard, MIT, Princeton) versus a top European program

 

Well since no one has jumped in here I will give it a shot. I would guess that there is very little practical difference between a doctorate from the three programs you mentioned and one from LSE, Cambridge or a top european program. Cultural factors are more important. If you did your undergrad at a european university and have strong ties to european higher ed, and are choosing a european placement as a first choice and not a fall back option, I don't see any reason why an elite us phd would be a disadvantage. In fact if you retain cultural fluency it might confer an advantage as the international market for US phd applicants is so competitive.

Edited by publicaffairsny
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it is. Here is one reason. During the hiring process someone is going to say

 

"Why fly out an American when there are equally talented Europeans close by?"

 

Also, Europeans hire countrymen first, other Europeans second, Americans/Canadians/Australians/other colonials third, and everyone else fourth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it is. Here is one reason. During the hiring process someone is going to say

 

"Why fly out an American when there are equally talented Europeans close by?"

 

Also, Europeans hire countrymen first, other Europeans second, Americans/Canadians/Australians/other colonials third, and everyone else fourth.

 

Source? That has definitely not been my experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Source? That has definitely not been my experience.

 

Source: he heard it from a guy.

 

I would imagine it is self-selection above all else. Since it is clear that European PhDs are sufficient for breaking into the European market, many of those with their sights set on staying in Europe probably just stay in Europe for their PhD.

 

I am an American speculating on this, so in no way is my opinion backed up by observation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well since no one has jumped in here I will give it a shot. I would guess that there is very little practical difference between a doctorate from the three programs you mentioned and one from LSE, Cambridge or a top european program. Cultural factors are more important. If you did your undergrad at a european university and have strong ties to european higher ed, and are choosing a european placement as a first choice and not a fall back option, I don't see any reason why an elite us phd would be a disadvantage. In fact if you retain cultural fluency it might confer an advantage as the international market for US phd applicants is so competitive.

Is this based on anything? Please do not package random, uninformed speculation as advice.

 

Training in European programs is often quite different from training in the US. The most obvious difference is that American PhDs all start with two years of coursework. On average, American schools take graduate education more seriously, though some places in Europe have high standards too. Every good school in the US regularly places students at European schools, but most jobs aren't in Europe and most people going to grad school in the US don't have a locational preference for Europe, so it's hardly surprising that most people don't wind up there.

 

In general I think people are prone to overestimating the importance of connections in the job market. Yes, there are backwater departments scattered around the world which ignore people who don't come from their narrow national network. These are not departments where you would want a job if you care about research; they are generally intellectually disconnected from economics as a whole. If an employer hires at the AEA meetings, then generally the best way to get a job with them is to emerge from grad school as a great candidate with great research. Yes, people from random schools place at top 10 departments all the time. Focus on finding a school which can provide you with a great education, and the rest will take care of itself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is this based on anything? Please do not package random, uninformed speculation as advice.

 

Training in European programs is often quite different from training in the US. The most obvious difference is that American PhDs all start with two years of coursework. On average, American schools take graduate education more seriously, though some places in Europe have high standards too. Every good school in the US regularly places students at European schools, but most jobs aren't in Europe and most people going to grad school in the US don't have a locational preference for Europe, so it's hardly surprising that most people don't wind up there.

 

In general I think people are prone to overestimating the importance of connections in the job market. Yes, there are backwater departments scattered around the world which ignore people who don't come from their narrow national network. These are not departments where you would want a job if you care about research; they are generally intellectually disconnected from economics as a whole. If an employer hires at the AEA meetings, then generally the best way to get a job with them is to emerge from grad school as a great candidate with great research. Yes, people from random schools place at top 10 departments all the time. Focus on finding a school which can provide you with a great education, and the rest will take care of itself.

 

I think you will see I performed a valuable service by initiating a conversation that others were hesitant to begin. This question sat unanswered for long time. Within a few hours of my posting there were ten responses. I said I was offering my best thoughts as no one else had. It was clearly couched in a qualification statement and frankly i find your criticism vindictive and unfounded.

 

I'm gonna do my best not to respond to any criticisms folks make from here on out. It's no longer challenging for me to expose my critics as fools. No one has risen to the challenge of debate and I don't expect you to either. Its not in your interest to receive that treatment and not in the interest of the forum to devote the bandwidth to it. I perform a valuable service by producing both a high quantity and quality of posts. I consistently solve the more routine problems for posters so more effort can be devoted to other topics. My ideas about more nuanced topics are routinely mirrored by the inputs of others further down the thread. I am civil, courteous and non-confrontational, which is a standard of discourse many others could seek to emulate. I am obviously impervious to criticism and making a genuine effort to learn and discuss. Your efforts are an exercise in futility.

Edited by publicaffairsny
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Training in European programs is often quite different from training in the US. The most obvious difference is that American PhDs all start with two years of coursework. On average, American schools take graduate education more seriously, though some places in Europe have high standards too.

 

I would disagree with this. US schools may have 2 years of coursework in the PhD program, but most European schools require you to complete a research masters before the PhD and will never allow you to start a PhD straight out of undergrad (or even after a professional masters only).

 

This being said, being from Europe, my impression is that the vast majority of people who want to work in Europe stay in Europe for their PhD (and this includes 80-90% of Europeans). So there is definitely a lot of selection going on. However, I'm pretty sure that you can easily place into Europe if you graduated from a top 10 US department. The biggest barrier is language. Most undergrad programs are not in English in Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are two main differences between Europe and the US.

1. There is no centralized hiring process in Europe.

2. There is less academic mobility in Europe and PhD graduates are more likely to stay at their institution whereas in the US this is highly unlikely.

 

This may make it more difficult for US PhD graduates to get a position at a European university. As fakeo mentioned, language is another factor that cannot be entirely omitted, even though English is slowly becoming more and more common at European economics departments.

 

However, I would also tend to believe that self selection is by far the most important factor. I am willing to bet that most US PhD graduates in econ never applied to any position in Europe and similarly most European PhD graduates never tried getting a position in the US.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...