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What are my chances in getting into a MA in Econ


jakethedog

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Hello everyone,

I'm trying to get a better understanding on what my current credentials signal as far as adcoms at the MA level of econ. I'm currently applying to Duke and Tufts because of their rigorous preparation towards a PhD. I would greatly appreciate anyone's feedback. I primarily want to go to Duke and Tufts because their research oriented. If you know of any other research oriented(and offer Thesis options) MA programs in the US, I'm definitely open for suggestions!

 

PROFILE:

Type of Undergrad: US Public University:Econ and Math(Top 40, 50), National Ranking(Top 40)

Undergrad GPA: 3.4

Type of Grad:

Grad GPA:

GRE: 153Q and 143 V

Math Courses:

Calc I (B), Calc II (B-), Calc III©, Intro to proofs(B) Proof based Linear Algebra(W, A), Proof based Advance Calculus I/Real Analysis I (A), Proof base Advance Calculus II/ Real Analysis II(currently taking it this semester, I think I should get an A given what I got for RA I)

Econ Courses (grad-level):

Econ Courses (undergrad-level): Principles Micro/Macro(A), Intermediate Micro/Macro(B,B+), International Trade(B+), International Macro(A), Public Choice(B+), Honors Empirical Research(B+)

Other Courses:Statistics I(A), Intro to prob(W, retaking this semester)

Letters of Recommendation: One from my Real Analysis professor(UC San Diego), my professor who supervised my undergraduate research (University of Chicago) and lastly my employer from the research center that I work in

Research Experience: I wrote two empirical papers and currently work in an economic research center

Teaching Experience:

Research Interests: For now, Development and Micro Theory

SOP: Standard I guess?

Concerns: My GRE scores are weak(especially verbal) and so are some of my grades. Do adcoms care about verbal if you're American? I'm hoping my A in Advance Calculus compensates for these shortcomings? I really do not know how real analysis signals for MA level econ. From what I've heard Tufts and Duke's Micro/Macro classes tend to be more theoretical/proof based so I'm hoping the A in advance calc and proof based linear signal well?

Other:

Applying to: Duke, Tufts, NYU, UT Austin

Edited by jakethedog
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Hello everyone,

I'm trying to get a better understanding on what my current credentials signal as far as adcoms at the MA level of econ. I'm currently applying to Duke and Tufts because of their rigorous preparation towards a PhD. I would greatly appreciate anyone's feedback. I primarily want to go to Duke and Tufts because their research oriented. If you know of any other research oriented(and offer Thesis options) MA programs in the US, I'm definitely open for suggestions!

 

PROFILE:

Type of Undergrad: US Public University:Econ and Math(Top 40, 50), National Ranking(Top 40)

Undergrad GPA: 3.4

Type of Grad:

Grad GPA:

GRE: 153Q and 143 V

Math Courses:

Calc I (B), Calc II (B-), Calc III©, Intro to proofs(B) Proof based Linear Algebra(W, A), Proof based Advance Calculus I/Real Analysis I (A), Proof base Advance Calculus II/ Real Analysis II(currently taking it this semester, I think I should get an A given what I got for RA I)

Econ Courses (grad-level):

Econ Courses (undergrad-level): Principles Micro/Macro(A), Intermediate Micro/Macro(B,B+), International Trade(B+), International Macro(A), Public Choice(B+), Honors Empirical Research(B+)

Other Courses:Statistics I(A), Intro to prob(W, retaking this semester)

Letters of Recommendation: One from my Real Analysis professor(UC San Diego), my professor who supervised my undergraduate research (University of Chicago) and lastly my employer from the research center that I work in

Research Experience: I wrote two empirical papers and currently work in an economic research center

Teaching Experience:

Research Interests: For now, Development and Micro Theory

SOP: Standard I guess?

Concerns: My GRE scores are weak(especially verbal) and so are some of my grades. Do adcoms care about verbal if you're American? I'm hoping my A in Advance Calculus compensates for these shortcomings? I really do not know how real analysis signals for MA level econ. From what I've heard Tufts and Duke's Micro/Macro classes tend to be more theoretical/proof based so I'm hoping the A in advance calc and proof based linear signal well?

Other:

Applying to: Duke, Tufts, NYU, UT Austin

 

This is a troubling profile for econ programs. The Q score is at least 10 points below where you need to be and the verbal score is 10 points below the standard for international students. There is an upward trajectory in math grades however and you have strong research experience. You need to devote significant time to studying for the GRE and you need to retake and significantly improve your score. Honestly, I really question the validity of the score. I think you may have an inaccurate result. For a native English speaker to get that verbal score and math major to get that quant score there must be an underlying issue.

Edited by publicaffairsny
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I don't understand why my scores are so low. Do I still have a chance? Most applicants have around a 3.7 GPA and 167 for quant, but I'm assuming most applicants also do not have proof based linear and real analysis. I really do not know how my profile signals, at one hand I have a low GRE score on the other I did well for higher math
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Retake your GRE!

This will raise a red flag for sure. The rest of your profile looks good and if not for the GRE, I think you would have a shot at all those programs. Your analysis grades should make up for low calc sequence grades, but not when your GRE quant score is that low. It just screams that there is some issue with your math skills. Keep in mind, for master's admission, you do not need everything in your profile to be perfect.

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Retake your GRE!

This will raise a red flag for sure. The rest of your profile looks good and if not for the GRE, I think you would have a shot at all those programs. Your analysis grades should make up for low calc sequence grades, but not when your GRE quant score is that low. It just screams that there is some issue with your math skills. Keep in mind, for master's admission, you do not need everything in your profile to be perfect.

I will retake it but the deadline for Duke has already passed and I will nott have enough time for Tufts application deadline. Basically, it seems as though I will not be accepted, therefore, I should start planning for the year ahead... I cannot reapply until January 2016... If this is the case, bringing up my GRE is inevitably my top priority(whether I get accepted or not), however given the depreciation of knowledge what would you recommend I do with that year? I was thinking about taking Topology as a non degree seeking student and trying to reapply/aim for a 1 year program instead. If I bring my score up to a 165-167 and I take Topology over that Fall, do you think I have a shot at some Canadian schools? By then I will also have my grades for Advance Calc II and intro to probability

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Did you study before taking the GRE? Did you feel that you were well-prepared? Did you feel healthy and wide-awake when taking the exam? Did you take any practice exams and if so, how did you do on the practice exams?

 

These questions are important. Especially the verbal score raises questions about the validity of your test. What were your sat scores for comparison?

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I will retake it but the deadline for Duke has already passed and I will nott have enough time for Tufts application deadline. Basically, it seems as though I will not be accepted, therefore, I should start planning for the year ahead... I cannot reapply until January 2016... If this is the case, bringing up my GRE is inevitably my top priority(whether I get accepted or not), however given the depreciation of knowledge what would you recommend I do with that year? I was thinking about taking Topology as a non degree seeking student and trying to reapply/aim for a 1 year program instead. If I bring my score up to a 165-167 and I take Topology over that Fall, do you think I have a shot at some Canadian schools? By then I will also have my grades for Advance Calc II and intro to probability

 

 

Look, if you can afford it, apply anyway. You never know, this isn't PhD admissions. I hope you've given a good explanation of your GRE scores.

 

You could always write something like:

"During my undergraduate carrier I have shown great immaturity with my laissez-faire approach to passing exams, as evidenced by my less than perfect GRE scores. However, by acing my analysis classes I have also shown that I have the potential to excel when sufficiently challenged. I am applying to your program because challenged in my academic endeavors is I what I want to be. Great performance on my side will naturally follow."

(joke, don't write anything like that! :) )

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Look, if you can afford it, apply anyway. You never know, this isn't PhD admissions. I hope you've given a good explanation of your GRE scores.

 

You could always write something like:

"During my undergraduate carrier I have shown great immaturity with my laissez-faire approach to passing exams...

(joke, don't write anything like that! :) )

 

I think the word in bold above was an accident (auto-correct), but appropriately funny given the verbal score.

 

(note: No harm intended to OP, just a little humor.)

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Look, if you can afford it, apply anyway. You never know, this isn't PhD admissions. I hope you've given a good explanation of your GRE scores.

 

You could always write something like:

"During my undergraduate carrier I have shown great immaturity with my laissez-faire approach to passing exams, as evidenced by my less than perfect GRE scores. However, by acing my analysis classes I have also shown that I have the potential to excel when sufficiently challenged. I am applying to your program because challenged in my academic endeavors is I what I want to be. Great performance on my side will naturally follow."

(joke, don't write anything like that! :) )

 

I tried highlighting my strengths in higher mathematics and research. I did not mention the low GRE scores in the SOP because I didn't know whether to include that or not. I also mentioned my nontraditional educational background which still influences my abilities to do standardized exams, but I do not know if they will take that into consideration

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I tried highlighting my strengths in higher mathematics and research. I did not mention the low GRE scores in the SOP because I didn't know whether to include that or not. I also mentioned my nontraditional educational background which still influences my abilities to do standardized exams, but I do not know if they will take that into consideration

 

What is nontraditional about your background? That is important information for us to give an assessment.

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Can you describe the non-traditional nature of your background and your prior performance on other standardized tests?

 

Throughout high school I was in standard ed, and a good portion was spent in an alternative school program for at risk students. I never had exposure to AP exams and as for the SAT, I was too busy working around 40 hours a week by senior year of high school to do well. There was no value for education in family, it really wasn't emphasized, so in all, I never build the skills required for taking standardized exams.

 

However, I did not explain this in my SOP because I really doubt it matters. At the end of the day, I have to figure out the tricks to taking and doing well in the GRE. I honestly find the whole exam convoluted, the data interpretation section is everything besides data interpretation lol. The wording of the problems really threw me off. My plan is to devote my entire summer break towards understanding the tricks and grasping what the problems are actually asking for.

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I see. I commend you for your perseverence. I study educational disparities and find students such as yourself to be truly exceptional.

 

Studying for a standardized test can be accomplished much in the way you would study for a conventional test. The difference is that you are studying a broader spectrum of information. Thus while you would spend a month studying for a cumulative final you may spend a year studying for a GRE.

 

The first step is not even studying individual concepts. It is developing a rigorous understanding of what is on the test. What concepts you will be responsible for. You've got to know the test. Then you attack the weaknesses you identify.

 

I think you should talk about your background in applications. My dad is on an admissions committee for an MD PhD program and they judge under represented minorities against other under represented minority applicants rather than the general pool of applicants. (Unfortunately what this means is south american aristocrats get in, but thats another story). I would imagine some econ programs, particularly masters programs, would do the same. I'm not sure if you are an URM, but a frank discussion of your background might lead them to treat you as such. Don't make excuses, but concisely express your experience. It's important information for them to know.

Edited by publicaffairsny
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Throughout high school I was in standard ed, and a good portion was spent in an alternative school program for at risk students. I never had exposure to AP exams and as for the SAT, I was too busy working around 40 hours a week by senior year of high school to do well. There was no value for education in family, it really wasn't emphasized, so in all, I never build the skills required for taking standardized exams.

 

However, I did not explain this in my SOP because I don't really doubt it matters. At the end of the day, I have to figure out the tricks to taking and doing well in the GRE. I honestly find the whole exam convoluted, the data interpretation section is everything besides data interpretation lol. The wording of the problems really threw me off. My plan is to devote my entire summer break towards understanding the tricks and grasping what the problems are actually asking for.

 

The data section is convoluted - it's meant to test your ability to pay attention to exactly what is being asked for, and to see if you get tripped up with what I called "usually obvious" tricks. That is what most of the math questions are set up to do, see if you fall prey to the common mistakes. Just in the data section, it feels laborious although not difficult. It made me feel like I had to check myself twice to make sure I absolutely did not make a mistake. I didn't feel this way for the rest of the quant section.

 

Do a search on this forum to look for good materials that people have used. The Kaplan book is good for math/writing (i didn't use it for verbal), and the "10lb GRE book" is great for math. Take as many tests as you can, and time yourself. Writing score can easily be brought up if you look at what they want and practice a couple times. Verbal is more difficult (IMO, the most difficult to change), but your should improve some just from reading about the verbal section (and going through a couple tests). The Quant section is all about reminding yourself how to do some of the material that you may not have seen since high school, or learning a geometry or trig type-question that you may not have covered. Other than that, it's just about practicing to make sure you don't make mistakes and can get through the problems quicker.

 

I meant no offense by my previous comment, although I almost replied to "study harder, do gooder, and get more better scores." Your scores verbal is fantastically low-I don't think I've seen a score that low on the forums. That is something that definitely has to change and should be able to change with a greater understanding of the test and practicing. Everyone here has the best of intentions, we just express it in different ways. Be motivated, put in the effort, see the results.

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@publicaffairsny:Thanks, I mentioned a general idea of it on the first two sentences of my SOP.

@Econhead: Thank you for the advice. I took some of the Kaplan exams from the book but I found them way too easy compared to powerprep and the computer adaptive exams from Manhattan prep. I didn't realize how misleading some of the Kaplan exams were until the last week before the actual exam. That's when I started reading the 5 lb book from Manhattan prep and the Quantitative Reasoning book from ETS. What would recommend that I do to speed up my time, especially given that I frequently found myself second guessing questions left and right. How could I avoid falling to prey to the obvious mistakes? As for Verbal, I did not study at all because I thought I did not need to. I figured, it would be based on reading passages and knowing some vocab terms, so my thought process was "well that can't be too difficult". I regret that decision so much right now. I should've actually studied for verbal. How do you even study for verbal lol?

No worries as far as taking offense, I'm just particularly interested in advice or feedback. Right now, I'm assuming my chances of being accepted are slim. That being said, I want to devote this summer to thoroughly study for the GRE so that I could retake it around September. What would recommend in the event that I don't get accepted to any of the Masters programs?

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my end goal is to become a tenure-track professor. Thus, in the event that I am not accepted, my current plan is to take topology that fall 2016 as a post bac/non degree student and reapply to Canadian schools. I'm confident that I should bring my quant score up to par if I devote the entire summer studying for it. Also, by the end of spring, I should have my grades for advance calc 2 and intro to probability(which so far they seem pretty straightforward).

Would that be a feasible plan? I was reading one other post about doing something with the Feds? It suggested that Masters are not that great if you want to place into a top program. On the other hand, there was someone that went to UT Austin for their Masters and got accepted into UCLA.

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Canadian masters programs have a better track record for placement than american masters, largely because american programs are oriented towards industry while many canadian are academic. However, we regularly see applicants on here who thrive in american masters programs and succeed in admissions by getting high gpa's along with research and teaching experience. One key for masters programs is enrolling in a 2 year rather than 1 year masters so you have time to develop relationships with profs for LOR's and research opportunities.

 

I really believe your biggest barrier is your GRE score. Think of it this way: You've done your best to become an expert on economics and math and you've succeeded at your objective. However, your goal requires you to also be an expert on the GRE. Don't approach it as a test, approach it as another academic subject that you have to master (it really is as nothing on it has any real relevance to graduate level econ.) Do this by developing an understanding of the "what" of the test first, (what concepts are on it) and then the "how" (how these concepts are executed).

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One key for masters programs is enrolling in a 2 year rather than 1 year masters so you have time to develop relationships with profs for LOR's and research opportunities.

 

I totally disagree. If you're applying at the end of year 1 in either case, then it doesn't matter at all which one you enroll in. Granted, a 1-year masters will mean that you'll have a year free between your masters and PhD, but you can (1) earn money, or (2) get a RA gig, which is more useful than further coursework (you'll get to do a bunch of coursework in your PhD anyways). But a 1-year masters may also provide better LORs. This is because by the end of year 1, you'll have completed and defended a masters thesis, something you can't say about a 2-year masters.

 

Also, my understanding is that there is a limited number of US masters that are good for PhD prep. These include e.g. UT Austin and Duke. Of course, it is still quite likely that a leading Canadian/EU masters (UBC, LSE, Oxbridge) still beats these by a large margin.

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I totally disagree. If you're applying at the end of year 1 in either case, then it doesn't matter at all which one you enroll in. Granted, a 1-year masters will mean that you'll have a year free between your masters and PhD, but you can (1) earn money, or (2) get a RA gig, which is more useful than further coursework (you'll get to do a bunch of coursework in your PhD anyways). But a 1-year masters may also provide better LORs. This is because by the end of year 1, you'll have completed and defended a masters thesis, something you can't say about a 2-year masters.

 

Also, my understanding is that there is a limited number of US masters that are good for PhD prep. These include e.g. UT Austin and Duke. Of course, it is still quite likely that a leading Canadian/EU masters (UBC, LSE, Oxbridge) still beats these by a large margin.

 

Wisconsin also started a new Master's last year that may be good for placement (however, no track record exists yet, although one might hope that advisors for a new Master's program would try very hard to place the first students in the program). Boston College, I believe, is also well known for their Master's.

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I totally disagree. If you're applying at the end of year 1 in either case, then it doesn't matter at all which one you enroll in. Granted, a 1-year masters will mean that you'll have a year free between your masters and PhD, but you can (1) earn money, or (2) get a RA gig, which is more useful than further coursework (you'll get to do a bunch of coursework in your PhD anyways). But a 1-year masters may also provide better LORs. This is because by the end of year 1, you'll have completed and defended a masters thesis, something you can't say about a 2-year masters.

 

Also, my understanding is that there is a limited number of US masters that are good for PhD prep. These include e.g. UT Austin and Duke. Of course, it is still quite likely that a leading Canadian/EU masters (UBC, LSE, Oxbridge) still beats these by a large margin.

 

As folks generally begin academic programs in the fall, and phd applications go out in the fall, I think a one year masters would be problematic for doctoral admissions if you followed this format. You would not be able to get a credible LOR in 2-3 months. in the program.

 

Of course, as in your scenario, you wait to apply until the fall after you finish, this would not be a problem. But you are committing 2 years either way.

 

As for the Wisconsin program, I will probably get downvoted for this, but I would like to compare it to a similar new program at SUNY Stony Brook. It follows the same two year format as the wisconsin program, mirroring the first year phd sequence and second year field format of the phd. The difference is, the sequence at Stony brook is identical to their phd, and you take the classes with the phd cohort rather than other masters students while receiving phd level advising. It is essentially an unfunded phd offer, and those with a >3.0 GPA at the end may apply for entrance to the dissertation stage. You can do a masters and if you're good enough finish your phd there in two years rather than four years.

 

Now Stony Brook is not as "elite" as Madison. But if you live in NY you'd be silly to go to the wisconsin program (instate vs. out of state tuition), and there may be reasons to attend stony brook even if you are from out of state or international.

 

http://www.econ.wisc.edu/grad/MS/index.html

 

http://www.stonybrook.edu/economics/graduate/master/

Edited by publicaffairsny
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