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Can high GMAT substitute for math background?


shockjock

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I'm looking into a career change. I'm almost 30 yrs old. I have a grad degree from a top program in my current field, but it's not a math-related field. If I'm serious about getting into a decent program, is it absolutely necessary to correct my formal lack of a math background? Or is it possible to get into a decent program without having taken advanced math classes way back when I did my undergrad. Any suggestions or thoughts appreciated. Thanks.
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Most programs require the GRE not the GMAT. Decent programs generally require both a good GRE score AND having taken advanced math classes. The math on the GRE and GMAT is basic math and doesn't even include calculus. When you say your math was not advanced, it would be helpful if you can post what specific classes you took.
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You're not gonna just walk into an economics program with no math background. You may be able to walk into a public policy or public administration phd if you have an elite under grad and graduate background with good grades and strong test scores. In a program like that you could study optimal tax and regulatory policies if you are interested in econ for its business applications. But most programs require calc 1-3, linear and math stats.
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Most programs require the GRE not the GMAT. Decent programs generally require both a good GRE score AND having taken advanced math classes. The math on the GRE and GMAT is basic math and doesn't even include calculus. When you say your math was not advanced, it would be helpful if you can post what specific classes you took.

 

It was just Calc I and some stats course. Would I need to go back and formally take calc II, linear algebra, advanced stats as one offs at local university or something to have a shot at decent, even with a high GRE? Is there any kind of math intensive boot camp or something one can take to demonstrate prereq math knowledge without the burden of formally taking semester+ long classes?

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Policy programs have "math camp" prior to the first week of classes. I think this is inadequate for economics. There is a level of what is called mathematical maturity that is only developed by interacting with math over time. If everyone else who is applying has that but you dont you are at a disadvantage. (I'm also guessing you are missing other necessities like economics research experience, intermediate micro and macro, letters of recommendation from economists.) You don't just walk into an econ PhD cause you're smart and talented. There is a game to play. Would you feel comfortable applying to med school without a biology sequence and organic chemistry? Econ is the med school of the social sciences. Edited by publicaffairsny
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It was just Calc I and some stats course. Would I need to go back and formally take calc II, linear algebra, advanced stats as one offs at local university or something to have a shot at decent, even with a high GRE? Is there any kind of math intensive boot camp or something one can take to demonstrate prereq math knowledge without the burden of formally taking semester+ long classes?

 

The answer is simply "no". A perfect GRE score will not make up for an inadequate math background, and there is no quick and easy way to get the math background. The math requirements are as high as they are because that level of math is actually used in economics coursework and research. It isn't a matter of demonstrating that you know the material, rather you actually have to learn it.

 

What you can do is take the classes that you need as a non-degree-seeking student.

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what are your interests? what is your field?

 

It is possible that econ may not be the only route and your transcript may be more than enough for some other related field

 

I'm an attorney. I do corporate work, primarily tech transactions. I'm interested in antitrust/IO, but at a more rigorous level like one would study it in a PhD econ program.

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I am a little concerned about whether you have enough knowledge of what an economics phd entails to know whether it is really the right path for you if you were considering it being feasible with just calc 1. Have you looked at recent economics journals and some phd-level economics textbooks such as MWG (Mas-Collel et al.) and then thought about whether it seems interesting to you/seems like what you want to do? If you have already read economics journal articles on antitrust/IO, my suggestion might not be relevant, but if you haven't I would definitely do so.

 

The programs require a lot of math to successfully complete. Multivariable calc and linear algebra are necessary not only to get admitted but also to succeed. Real analysis or something involving proofs might also be necessary or at the least helpful depending on what program. If you go to even a mid-ranked program, there will be other people who are not only intelligent people who are good at taking tests but who also have a lot of preparation that you'll be competing against.

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Remember, when you choose an econ phd you are choosing a career that is oriented towards research. Are you interested in being a professor or are you trying to add value in the tech industry? while there are options that fall in between, when a phd econ program recruits you their goal is to place you in an academic position. If you are geared towards doing high level mergers and acquisitions in the tech industry, a top MBA program might be a better fit.
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You're not gonna just walk into an economics program with no math background. You may be able to walk into a public policy or public administration phd if you have an elite under grad and graduate background with good grades and strong test scores. In a program like that you could study optimal tax and regulatory policies if you are interested in econ for its business applications. But most programs require calc 1-3, linear and math stats.

 

Please stop putting public policy in the same sentence as public administration. It's one of your most egregiously misleading amateur mistakes, out of many. Public Policy PhDs are increasingly a form of applied economics PhDs and are serious, competitive, and research-oriented programs. Public administration is the toilet of each and every university. http://www.arisbe.com/detached/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/grelarge.jpg

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Please stop putting public policy in the same sentence as public administration. It's one of your most egregiously misleading amateur mistakes, out of many. Public Policy PhDs are increasingly a form of applied economics PhDs and are serious, competitive, and research-oriented programs. Public administration is the toilet of each and every university. http://www.arisbe.com/detached/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/grelarge.jpg

 

And you are still completely ignorant. Glad to see you've learned nothing at hahvad. Why dont you go tell the prof at the kennedy school with the maxwell pa phd you think he studied in a toilet.

 

The best public admin programs, syracuse nyu uga spea are at schools that don't have policy programs but could and apply microeconomic and econometric analysis to program evaluation. This approach is interchangeable with policy analysis. Why don't you stick to econ which you may (I'm not convinced) know something about.

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And you are still completely ignorant. Glad to see you've learned nothing at hahvad. Why dont you go tell the prof at the kennedy school with the maxwell pa phd you think he studied in a toilet.

 

The best public admin programs, syracuse nyu uga spea are at schools that don't have policy programs but could and apply microeconomic and econometric analysis to program evaluation. This approach is interchangeable with policy analysis. Why don't you stick to econ which you may (I'm not convinced) know something about.

 

The fact that the elitist, antagonistic offensive and downright wrong post by an arrogant delusional and condescending Harvard student like chateauheart got 2 upvotes while my factual proportional and completely justified response got 4 down votes in an hour is conclusive proof of every argument i've made about the sycophantic adulation of rankings and hierarchy and the inanity of the down vote mechanism.

 

I have an offer: everyone who has down voted my posts in the interest of censorship should send me a forwarding address and I will mail them a book to burn. We can start with Samuelson's foundations for emphasis.

Edited by publicaffairsny
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The fact that the elitist, antagonistic offensive and downright wrong post by an arrogant delusional and condescending Harvard student like chateuheart got 2 upvotes while my factual proportional and completely justified response got three down votes in an hour is conclusive proof of every argument i've made about the sycophantic adulation of rankings and hierarchy and the inanity of the down vote mechanism.

 

You're increasingly crossing the line PANY.

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You're increasingly crossing the line PANY.

 

That's for the moderator to decide not you. There is a no trolling rule on this forum which is constantly violated by people who criticize me. Case in point: château's post.

 

However I'm the one who is threatened for defending myself. Any action taken against me must be taken against chateauheart, and all who have delivered personal attacks against me, to be ethically defensible. Luckily we have a moderator who has an ethical and moral compass and understands that civil disagreement is allowed.

 

The school week is over and I'm taking a well deserved nap. I will not be responding further to this thread.

Edited by publicaffairsny
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While I agree with Chateau that Public Admin and policy are very different in their admission requirements and research focus, I wouldn't call it a toilet degree, I mean it does have its use. Even the Medical school GRE scores were just as low.

 

As for PANY, I think you do bring something to this forum, I mean the discussions have become more livelier, some threads that would normally get one or two replies now get multiple once you post in there.

 

 

 

However, my advice would be to let things go. Because now it seems that you are doing the attacking as well, so it is just going to get worse.

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While I agree with Chateau that Public Admin and policy are very different in their admission requirements and research focus, I wouldn't call it a toilet degree, I mean it does have its use. Even the Medical school GRE scores were just as low.

 

As for PANY, I think you do bring something to this forum, I mean the discussions have become more livelier, some threads that would normally get one or two replies now get multiple once you post in there.

 

 

 

However, my advice would be to let things go. Because now it seems that you are doing the attacking as well, so it is just going to get worse.

 

Thank you. I generally stick to facts. My ideas are different but I accept diverging views and offer fact based counterpoints. This is the nature of academic debate. I don't get why people are struggling with this.

 

This thread escalated because an arrogant student from an elite program said something highly offensive delivered as a personal ad hominem attack against me. I think I was proportional and justified. I seriously don't get why people want to go ad hominem on me when they could grow by engaging intellectually.

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Please stop putting public policy in the same sentence as public administration. It's one of your most egregiously misleading amateur mistakes, out of many. Public Policy PhDs are increasingly a form of applied economics PhDs and are serious, competitive, and research-oriented programs. Public administration is the toilet of each and every university. http://www.arisbe.com/detached/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/grelarge.jpg

 

I would like to make a few points about the article:

 

1. There are no scores listed for public policy programs in that table so im not sure how you can compare the programs based on that data.

 

2. Many public administration programs are professionally rather than academically oriented. That doesn't mean the elite academically oriented programs aren't rigorous. Everyone at maxwell at Syracuse has 150+ verbals and 160+ quants just like an econ program.

 

3. You speak in absolutes: public administration is the toilet of each and every university. Actually the schools of public administration at Syracuse and Indiana Bloomington are the most competitive and rigorous schools at their respective universities. NYU is very proud of their school as well.

Edited by publicaffairsny
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And you are still completely ignorant. Glad to see you've learned nothing at hahvad. Why dont you go tell the prof at the kennedy school with the maxwell pa phd you think he studied in a toilet.

 

The best public admin programs, syracuse nyu uga spea are at schools that don't have policy programs but could and apply microeconomic and econometric analysis to program evaluation. This approach is interchangeable with policy analysis. Why don't you stick to econ which you may (I'm not convinced) know something about.

 

Re post so the interchangeability of microeconomic and econometric program evaluation and policy analysis is not left out of the discussion. In addition, I will refer to the us news rankings, which rate schools such as Syracuse Maxwell (which has no MPP or public policy phd) as among the top public policy schools (#8), and other schools such as Chicago Harris (which has no MPA or phd in public administration) among the top public affairs schools (#23).

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