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Should I get a PhD in Economics?


kevin1297

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Hi,

I am currently an sophomore at Occidental College, a top 40 liberal arts college in California. I am a International Relations and Economics double major, with a math minor, and am thinking of applying to econ PhD programs, but am not sure. I have written down everything that I can think of about my opinions of economics grad school and what I want to do for a career, with the hope that I can get a definitive answer about whether or not a PhD program is right for me.

 

Things that I have thought about regarding economics:

I've always found myself interested in the economics of transition, developing, and non-market economies.

I always wondered about which policies would be most effective to pursue growth in these kinds of economies, and would often imagine myself, "pulling the levers" of the economy, in other words, what would I do if I could make policy decisions?

To me, the economies mentioned above are much more interesting than traditional developed economies because they represent either frontiers (developing and transition economies) or economies "out of the box" of traditional Keynesian and Hayekian models (non market economies). In addition, because my parents grew up behind the Iron Curtain, this furthered my interest in non-market economies.

 

I love learning, and would frequently read journal articles in my free time on economics, and I am very passionate about the subject

Regarding math, I like it when I know what to do and can solve the problem. In calc now for example, I get frustrated if I don't get the material, but when I can solve a problem, I really enjoy it.

In addition, I am going to Uganda this summer for two months to work with an NGO to improve it's reach and quality of effectiveness, to see how much I like development, but I'm not sure at this point. I have had three internships so far:

- In the summer between my freshman and sophomore year, I interned for a Congresswoman in DC, who I had volunteered for in high school, which gives me some policy experience.

- This spring, I am interning for the Coalition for Humane and Immigrant Rights in Los Angeles as a research and data intern. I interview children of undocumented immigrants, collect data and create a database, then run regression and analyses of the data using Stata to find correlations which can be applied towards policymaking.

- Finally, this summer, I am interning at the Foundation for Sustainable Development where I will be going to Uganda and working to help improve the quality of an NGO. I hope to turn my internship there into a research paper to be presented a school wide conference over the summer.

 

I am afraid that these internships are kind of all over the place (policy, research, development) and I am not focused, but I am unsure about which path to choose. (MPP or PhD).

 

Regarding academics:

Current GPA: 3.43 (will improve)

Economics GPA: 3.42 (I got a B- in Calc I which ruined it)

Intro to Econ I A-

Intro to Econ II A-

Economic Development A-

Intermediate Macro B+ (weak, I know)

Intermediate Micro (taking now) (A- so far)

Calc I B-

Math:

Calc I: B-

Calc II: taking now (A so far)

Calc III: taking in the fall

Linear Algebra: taking in the future

Real Analysis: taking in the future

Statistics: A-

 

I know that my GPA is weak, and that I need to bring it up. I also know that I don't have any research experience. I don't know what to do about whether to drop the International Relations major (there's no minor) and take more math instead, but not double major in math and econ, as that would be too stressful, and frankly, more math than I would need for a PhD in Economics.

 

What GPA do I need to get into a top 50 school? What should I improve? What have I done well? Is a PhD right for me?

 

Thank You

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Honestly, you sound like a better fit for Policy or Development Studies programs. You're going to find Economics to be quite insular as a discipline and not really motivated by humanitarian ideals, as you seem to be. Your awesome internship experiences won't matter one iota for graduate school admissions. Economics research is positivist and highly mathematical.

 

With that said, if you are intent on getting into a Top 50 program, straight A's in the listed math classes will get you there, though you may want to retake Intermediate Macro and do some research. That should be fine for somewhere in the Top 50, but just know that Top 25 is a whole different animal.

 

Good luck.

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Honestly, you sound like a better fit for Policy or Development Studies programs. You're going to find Economics to be quite insular as a discipline and not really motivated by humanitarian ideals, as you seem to be. Your awesome internship experiences won't matter one iota for graduate school admissions. Economics research is positivist and highly mathematical.

 

With that said, if you are intent on getting into a Top 50 program, straight A's in the listed math classes will get you there, though you may want to retake Intermediate Macro and do some research. That should be fine for somewhere in the Top 50, but just know that Top 25 is a whole different animal.

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks for the reply.

If I do get a PhD in Economics, I would want to work at the World Bank, the IMF, government agencies, etc. and do policy work. I feel like with an MPP, i can't really do that, as well, because I would hit a glass ceiling.

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Also, is an A- looked at the same as an A in grad school admissions, or are they totally different things?

 

Finally, should I retake Calc I given that I got a B-?

 

You should check where World Bank Ph.D's did their schooling. I believe that the organizations you are targeting place a ton of importance on pedigree, so it's likely Top 50 won't cut it there, though I can't be sure. I think your grade in Calc I should be looked over if you get A's in the rest of your math classes. A consistent trend of B's would be pretty bad, and A's in upper level math classes would force ad coms to look beyond a B- in introductory calc.

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This is a pretty clear-cut case. I don't think a PhD is for you, both because of interest and because of feasibility.

 

1. It seems like you're interested in policy-making or policy work, not research. Those jobs you mention at the IMF/WB are still research positions; they are less involved in the "real" world than you think.

 

2. To be frank, unless a very drastic and unlikely change in your academic performance occurs, you are unlikely to get into a top 100 PhD economics program eventually. US econ programs are very competitive, and take from roughly the top 5% of an undergrad class of an equivalently ranked institution. Having a 3.7+ GPA in math, and at least a minor's worth of math courses, is almost a prerequisite.

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This is a pretty clear-cut case. I don't think a PhD is for you, both because of interest and because of feasibility.

 

1. It seems like you're interested in policy-making or policy work, not research. Those jobs you mention at the IMF/WB are still research positions; they are less involved in the "real" world than you think.

 

2. To be frank, unless a very drastic and unlikely change in your academic performance occurs, you are unlikely to get into any PhD economics program. US econ programs are very competitive, and take from roughly the top 5% of an equivalently ranked undergrad class, with a 3.7+ GPA in math almost a prerequisite.

 

Like I mentioned in my post above, I am planning to really work hard and improve my grades. If I get a 3.85 for the rest of college, which is possible, I can end up with a 3.7.

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2. To be frank, unless a very drastic and unlikely change in your academic performance occurs, you are unlikely to get into any PhD economics program. US econ programs are very competitive, and take from roughly the top 5% of an equivalently ranked undergrad class, with a 3.7+ GPA in math almost a prerequisite.

 

Chateau, that's simply not true. A (youngish) Professor at my first undergraduate institution told me he had several C's in his upper level math classes. Granted, he was teaching at a directional University, and his Ph.D came from a very, very low ranked domestic Ph.D program, but he was still publishing research, teaching classes, and living the sweet life of an academic.

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Keep in mind your future courses will contain a lot of math and math-based stats. I think it's unrealistic to make plans assuming that you can force your way from a 10th-20th percentile performance to a 90th percentile performance in any academic area. Keep on taking those math/stats courses and see if you do well, because they're valuable in any case, but I think you should find internships and work experience in the near future *assuming* you won't be doing a PhD.
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Chateau, that's simply not true. A (youngish) Professor at my first undergraduate institution told me he had several C's in his upper level math classes. Granted, he was teaching at a directional University, and his Ph.D came from a very, very low ranked domestic Ph.D program, but he was still publishing research, teaching classes, and living the sweet life of an academic.

 

I guess that metric works better for the set of top 50 programs than outside of it. Somebody with very strong economic intuition - and motivation to work in the field - can get admitted and do well in some programs with subpar math skills, but it's usually just not a sensible career choice considering there are so many thousands of careers out there that doesn't prioritize math as essentially the primary skill.

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I guess that metric works better for the set of top 50 programs than outside of it. Somebody with very strong economic intuition - and motivation to work in the field - can get admitted and do well in some programs with subpar math skills, but it's usually just not a sensible career choice considering there are so many thousands of careers out there that doesn't prioritize math as essentially the primary skill.

 

What would those career options for policy be, and would they involve getting an MPP or similar degree?

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You seem to enjoy the implementation aspect of policy work. Being out in the field collecting primary data, interacting with subjects (people) and getting things up and running. Here my :2cents:

 

If you want a career that is similar to your internship experiences to date get a MPP.

 

If you want a career where you will never have time to date or gain any relevant real world experiences then get a PhD.

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MPP programs are normally not as selective as PhD programs. So if you were to get into a top MPP program, you could land a policy analyst type job or similar. For MPP programs your internship experience will carry weight.

That being said, since you are still a sophomore, there is still time to figure out what you really want, research jobs or policy evaluation /implementation jobs. You also still have time to boost your profile for whatever path you take.

 

There are a lot of people on this forum that struggled initially and did much better later on, so there's still time.

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I'll start this by noting that I am not acquainted with MPP or any policy degrees, or the optimal path associated with obtaining one of these jobs.

 

That said, it would appear that what OP really wants is a think-tank type position. Given his inclination for policy (and associated interests in economics), what would be said optimal path?

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You might consider looking into applied economics rather than pure, since you seem most interested in developing a toolkit of economics for use in real-world policy making. Trying for a masters somewhere in applied or agricultural economics could go a long way given your background and interests. It would allow you room to expand your research and coursework in economics, but still be valuable in its own right on a job market. I have colleagues in my MS program in ag econ in Europe who have the potential to go on to work at places like the FAO, World Bank, national government ministries, or research centers such as IFPRI or a CGIAR partner. At the same time, if you find you do like research and academia you can go on to a PhD in applied econ without requiring as strong a background in maths.
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^This is good advice in the case where OP is set on doing either policy work or research, but keep in mind that he has absolutely zero experience in either so far, and that's not much to base a career plan on. I'd really recommend spending a summer trying out both, and in the meantime also explore multiple other career options available.
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I think I am somewhat more positive about your potential interest in a PhD than previous posters. If you like reading journal articles and thinking about issues, and especially if you enjoy the process of generating your own hypotheses and trying to understand or test them, then you would enjoy what PhDs do, which is research. It sounds to me (I might be wrong) like your interest in policy positions may be because you see that as focused on real-world problems. But you should know that a great deal of academic research is also focused on real-world problems. If what attracts you about policy is the satisfaction of being involved in the actual implementation, then disregard my previous advice and don't do a PhD.

 

I also think that weak grades are not necessarily a death sentence for your admissions prospects, although they are a clear caution. Schools outside the top 10 or 20 have many grad students who had mediocre records as undergrads. But these students generally did poorly only because they were lazy or flaky in college. It concerns me more to see you getting a mixture of A-'s and B's than it would to see you getting a mixture of A's and F's. If you're going to class and turning in assignments and still getting those grades, then you would struggle in a PhD program. If you wouldn't be able to get mostly solid A's simply by studying a reasonable amount, then you would struggle in a PhD program. This is because, in a PhD program, you don't have the option of studying twice as much as your classmates. And if you struggle in grad school, you will almost certainly not get a job at one of the institutions you mentioned.

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