tualatin Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I've been accepted for the fall to Master's programs in economics at Toronto (Doctoral stream, good funding) and Queen's (pre-approved for top tier, good funding). From these results I think I'm likely to be admitted at UBC as well when results come later this month. Where should I go? I'm undecided but leaning toward Toronto at this point. I intend to do a PhD following the MA, not necessarily in Canada. I'm hoping there's someone out there who can give me some insight into the programs at any of these schools; especially as to how they have been over the last two years. I'm aware of the rankings and general reputation of each of the schools and am hoping for more specific comments. Funding isn't a dominant factor for me, and research interests aren't important at this point. Thanks in advance for any advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JQX Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't think there is a significant difference among these three. But I'd rate UBC and U of T higher than Queen's slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econbrah Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'm in the same situation. I'll probably opt for U of T doctoral. I asked the department if they have any placement stats for U of T doctoral stream MA's. All they revealed is that 1/3 go into industry, 1/3 go on to PhD's outside U of T, and 1/3 continue to the PhD at U of T. They also said that although Admission into the PhD program is not automatic for MA doctoral students, they admit all the students who "do well", and the 2 PhD core courses you take in the MA can be applied to the PhD. Does anyone have any further information on U of T's doctoral steam MA? Such as subsequent ability to enter a top PhD program in the USA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tualatin Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 U of T hasn't ever given out information on PhD placements of MA students as far as I'm aware. I have to think that if they had placed students in the top 5, they'd say so. But I could be wrong. Queen's said they had had students attend MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Princeton, etc. In fact, they mentioned every top 10 school except Chicago. That said, those could be old placements. Rumor is that Queen's has declined a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JQX Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 U of T hasn't ever given out information on PhD placements of MA students as far as I'm aware. I have to think that if they had placed students in the top 5, they'd say so. But I could be wrong. Queen's said they had had students attend MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Princeton, etc. In fact, they mentioned every top 10 school except Chicago. That said, those could be old placements. Rumor is that Queen's has declined a little. Well, I think all big 4's can place sutndents into top 20 PhD in the US if you do well in them Actually, even Calgary once successfully placed someone into Princeton. (They put their MA placement every year on their website) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsanto Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I started the MA Doctoral Stream at University of Toronto this fall, and dropped out. I'm now working in industry. My profile is probably pretty easy to find through my post history, so I'll let you guys do the legwork on that! I chose the PhD Econometrics stream, and found it extremely, extremely hard. I dropped that course, and then subsequently left the program altogether. I realized I'd just lost interest in pursuing further study in the subject! I realize my experience is probably a non-traditional one, but I'd be happy to respond to any questions etc. if you guys have some. I am quite biased against UofT, but I would encourage all of you to consider the environment of the school you are going to and not just its ranking. I found UofT quite cold and very competitive rather than collegial. I'm not the best at making friends and not particularly outgoing, so that's definitely part of it. That said, I think another school might have been a better pick for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrose27 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hey, I'm actually in a very similar boat! I'm accepted to Toronto (regular stream, didn't apply to doctoral but am regretting it), Queen's, and UBC. Queen's and Toronto gave me great funding + TA ships, UBC gave me a TA ship and a small award. I've also been accepted to Oxford's MSC Economics for Development program (no funding) and am struggling with which option to choose. I'm strongly considering a PhD in the future, but given life circumstances my Master's might end up as my terminal degree so that makes it hard to choose between the programs. @Setsanto, I would be interested more in hearing about your experiences with UofT. What made it "cold"? The administration? Or the students? Queen's seems to have the best work-life balance of the schools for the students from what i've seen (probably because they offer spring courses so you don't have to do 4 and 4 and they keep a core theory course in the winter term instead of all four in the first term like UBC), but it seems to have less research faculty and fewer course offerings than the other two, substantially fewer than UofT. For Toronto, one area I am confused about is that there are PhD courses that seem to be also available to MA students. Is this risky for an MA student to take? I'm especially interested in courses like applied empirical micro (2803), labour (2800, 2801), Public (2600, 2601) but they're all identified as dual MA/PhD courses and i'm scared i'd end up overloading myself if i enrolled in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsanto Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I took applied emp micro with Bobonis and absolutely loved it, he was my favourite part of that whole semester. I found both the administration and the people cold. There wasn't much emphasis on sharing and collaboration, and I felt a little cheated at times. There are certainly a huge variety of courses as you pointed out, which is a significant positive for uoft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrose27 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I took applied emp micro with Bobonis and absolutely loved it, he was my favourite part of that whole semester. I found both the administration and the people cold. There wasn't much emphasis on sharing and collaboration, and I felt a little cheated at times. There are certainly a huge variety of courses as you pointed out, which is a significant positive for uoft. I got a chance to meet Bobonis and he seemed like a really excellent professor! Did you find there were many/any regular stream master's students in the course that year? Most of the electives i am interested in are the phd/doctoral stream eligible ones and i don't know if it is realistic for me to take them all (in the same semester especially for term 2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsanto Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Yeah there were 2 regular stream master's students in that course. I honestly wouldn't concern myself too much with the cross listed phd courses vs. the ma-only courses. You get easier assignments than the phd students in those elective courses and I never felt that my preparation wasn't enough for Bobonis' class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flopson Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 i took a phd class in MA at queen's. it wasn't double-listed, it was pretty hard but fun. also this is somewhat inaccurate: Queen's seems to have the best work-life balance of the schools for the students from what i've seen (probably because they offer spring courses so you don't have to do 4 and 4 and they keep a core theory course in the winter term instead of all four in the first term like UBC), but it seems to have less research faculty and fewer course offerings than the other two, substantially fewer than UofT. you actually only have to take 7 courses, so the choice is between 3 - 3 - 1, 4 - 3 - 0 and 3 - 4 - 0. The majority of people choose the latter. in terms of course offerings, it's definitely limited, but i don't think the amount of research faculty should be a concern. there's plenty of solid researchers relative to the size of the MA cohort, and unlike UofT you get a lot of access to them. there's a mandatory MA essay, and you get paired with a supervisor of your choosing. to my knowledge the only people who get access to profs in that way at UofT are second year PhD's, but they get chosen by the profs. or MA's who get RA's. i don't know how common it is there for an MA to be RA there, though. the "congenial" atmosphere at queen's makes it very easy to get RAships, at least in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrose27 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Yeah there were 2 regular stream master's students in that course. I honestly wouldn't concern myself too much with the cross listed phd courses vs. the ma-only courses. You get easier assignments than the phd students in those elective courses and I never felt that my preparation wasn't enough for Bobonis' class. thank you for the reply! I do worry though since my econometrics is my weakest of my core courses and the class seems to require quite a bit of familiarity with both micro and metrics. i intend to work on preparing for metrics (and math, generally) before september no matter where i go, but for toronto specifically do you think that taking a course like that in term 1 might be a bit of a heavy weight for someone who has never felt too comfortable with metrics? I will most likely do a part time degree (return in the following fall) so i might have a chance to take it again with him in that case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrose27 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) i took a phd class in MA at queen's. it wasn't double-listed, it was pretty hard but fun. also this is somewhat inaccurate: you actually only have to take 7 courses, so the choice is between 3 - 3 - 1, 4 - 3 - 0 and 3 - 4 - 0. The majority of people choose the latter. in terms of course offerings, it's definitely limited, but i don't think the amount of research faculty should be a concern. there's plenty of solid researchers relative to the size of the MA cohort, and unlike UofT you get a lot of access to them. there's a mandatory MA essay, and you get paired with a supervisor of your choosing. to my knowledge the only people who get access to profs in that way at UofT are second year PhD's, but they get chosen by the profs. or MA's who get RA's. i don't know how common it is there for an MA to be RA there, though. the "congenial" atmosphere at queen's makes it very easy to get RAships, at least in my experience. thank you for the reply! I think that i would do the 3-3-1 structure, especially since one of the courses i'd want to take (cost benefit) seems to be only offered in the spring terms. I'm considering the research faculty aspect of it less and less, but the one thing detracting from queen's right now for me is that they don't offer many courses in the areas i'd like. they're not offering development, labour, environment, etc. next year from what i've heard and that leaves me with very few courses to choose from that actually interest me. Public econ seems interesting, cost benefit would be relevant, maybe law would be useful, but i honestly don't know which 4th elective course i could take that would hold my interest. i worry that i would lose my motivation if i took classes which aren't in my fields of interest. Queen's would be the cheapest option for me by far (all costs covered so i'd finish with 0$ of debt, compared to 14K for toronto, 28K UBC, and 65K Oxford), and i love the smaller class sizes and chance to interact with profs, but all the same if the profs aren't even in the area i'd want to work in, would that matter much? To be honest, it was the essay that really attracted me to Queen's. Until i realized that no one in the faculty even studies/researches what i'd like to do. I really wish the school would offer a few more "progressive" economics courses (development, health, environment, even labour)...i would accept them for sure if they did. P.S. is Queens' congenial reputation really true? I hear it all the time but i wasn't sure if it applied to all faculties. The econ graduate assistant there is an absolute gem though, I don't think any of the other schools had someone as helpful and friendly as her and honestly that makes a big difference Edited April 8, 2015 by redrose27 why does it reword "PS" into "personal statement"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsanto Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 thank you for the reply! I do worry though since my econometrics is my weakest of my core courses and the class seems to require quite a bit of familiarity with both micro and metrics. i intend to work on preparing for metrics (and math, generally) before september no matter where i go, but for toronto specifically do you think that taking a course like that in term 1 might be a bit of a heavy weight for someone who has never felt too comfortable with metrics? I will most likely do a part time degree (return in the following fall) so i might have a chance to take it again with him in that case Read Mostly Harmless Econometrics by Angrist and Pischke. That's the textbook used for 2803. Not only will it help your econometrics preparation, it will also serve as a guide as to whether or not you are prepared to take 2803. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flopson Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 RE: queen's - there's a development class offered in the fall and you learn a lot of applied labor in the empirical labor course. in the end was very happy with all the courses i took. if your next best option is paying $14K to go to UofT i'd say it's a no-brainer. course selection is an issue with the program for sure, but not a $14K problem. i can personally confirm the congenial reputation. there are weekly seminars, after which you can go to the grad pub to have beers with profs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrose27 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 RE: queen's - there's a development class offered in the fall and you learn a lot of applied labor in the empirical labor course. in the end was very happy with all the courses i took. if your next best option is paying $14K to go to UofT i'd say it's a no-brainer. course selection is an issue with the program for sure, but not a $14K problem. i can personally confirm the congenial reputation. there are weekly seminars, after which you can go to the grad pub to have beers with profs. they're no longer offering either of those courses next year :( if they offered even one i might have re-considered, but at this point i'd be stuck taking finance and other courses that i would have no interest or motivation in learning. Question: how intense was the math/theory at queens, especially for micro/macro/metrics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flopson Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 not too intense. i had a fairly strong background so it was pretty easy for me. people who had absolutely no math background struggled, otherwise everyone was ok if not taking a development class is worth 14,000$ to you... you must have a lot more money than me! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrose27 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 not too intense. i had a fairly strong background so it was pretty easy for me. people who had absolutely no math background struggled, otherwise everyone was ok if not taking a development class is worth 14,000$ to you... you must have a lot more money than me! :-D I only have a calculus background...no linear algebra, weak econometrics, no real analysis. I don't think I can handle that. The Toronto one would be more expensive because I would stay 4 months longer spreading out the degree (mostly cost of living and also tuition) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flopson Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 you don't need real analysis at all and there's a math prep that will teach you the lin alge you need. no difference in level of math required for UofT or UBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrose27 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 you don't need real analysis at all and there's a math prep that will teach you the lin alge you need. no difference in level of math required for UofT or UBC unfortunately now i'm begining to thinking that i don't have the math background to do any of the three any longer :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unikkatel Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 FWIW, I had a fantastic time at Queen's, both educationally in the level of course rigor, and socially everyone got along really well. The students came there with the mindset of helping vs. trying to compete with each other which made learning fun & collaborative. You can look to explore specific interests that may not necessarily be offered as a course via the masters essay (I focused mine on environment for example). My cohort was quite diverse in their post grad paths. Quite a few went on to work at the central bank or other federal gov`t, some went to industry (banks, consulting, energy), some went to combine their MA with a JD, and some continued on to a PhD (from what I can remember a few stayed at Queen's, a few went to Toronto and UBC, and one eventually got into Berkeley after finishing a research fellowship at Harvard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flopson Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 unfortunately now i'm begining to thinking that i don't have the math background to do any of the three any longer :( nah you'll be fine. my officemate never even took calculus and he got straight A's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flopson Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 also, if you got funded offers at ubc or u-toronto and the only difference is the cost of living in those cities, i'd say go with your heart. i got pretty slim funding: just a TAship and a bursary from my provincial government, but was able to live quite comfortably in kingston off of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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