admissions process

[economisttt]

Hello everyone,

Can anyone help me better understand the process by which adcoms look at our files? I learned from another forum that at one school, adcoms look at math/econ grades and GRE scores, and if good enough, looks at LORs, and if that's good enough, they (maybe) look at writing samples. Is this generally the case for all the schools?

If our math grades are not good enough, will our application be thrown away by adcoms even without referring to the LORs? How about if we have a good GRE score?

Thanks in advance.

[tutonic]

From what I understand, adcoms usually use gre's quant score as an initial cut. They rarely look at applications who get below 160. So getting a good gre quant score will help you survive the initial cut. After that, I'm not entirely sure. I suppose you'll be relying on your undergraduate/graduate grades and LoRs to carry you further into the process.

[economisttt]

Thanks tutonic!

I see. I wasn't sure if the GRE, math grades, or both were involved in the initial cut. I guess the two are usually correlated, though.

[Sam2791]

From what I understand, adcoms usually use gre's quant score as an initial cut. They rarely look at applications who get below 160. So getting a good gre quant score will help you survive the initial cut. After that, I'm not entirely sure. I suppose you'll be relying on your undergraduate/graduate grades and LoRs to carry you further into the process.

 

Hi Tutonic,

I'm in the process of applying to Econ schools for master's program and my question to you is: Do the adcom only look at the quant score of GRE. I have 160+ in quant but really low score in verbal and I think I do not have sufficient time to re-take the exam.

[tutonic]

Hi Tutonic,

I'm in the process of applying to Econ schools for master's program and my question to you is: Do the adcom only look at the quant score of GRE. I have 160+ in quant but really low score in verbal and I think I do not have sufficient time to re-take the exam.

 

Well, I believe if depends on how low your verbal scores are. If it's unusually low, they might see it as indicative of your difficulty in the English language. I might be wrong, though. It's best to consult those more senior and knowledgeable in the forums.

[tutonic]

Thanks tutonic!

I see. I wasn't sure if the GRE, math grades, or both were involved in the initial cut. I guess the two are usually correlated, though.

 

I believe that the reason gre scores are used as an initial cut is because different regions and schools grade students differently. For example, a student who scores As in all his math classes should definitely be getting 160+ in his quant section of the gre. Getting any lower and the adcoms will begin to question the 'reliability' of your As in your undergrads. Get what I'm saying? Since they don't know how rigorous the course is, and whether the school is generous with its grades.

[mathenomics]

I think another way to put it would be that a low GRE quant score is a strong negative signal to adcoms, while a high GRE quant score is an ambiguous signal. It's hard for them to tell how quantitatively capable you are just because you got a 170Q, so it'll probably make more sense for them to look for other evidence such as math classes taken, grades, rec letters, etc. But if you got a low quant score to begin with, then maybe for them it's not even worth looking at your application because a high quant score was their minimum standard to begin with.

[economisttt]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Thanks tutonic and mathenomics!

[Kaysa]

First, who was recommended to them by their colleagues

 

Second, undergraduate institution

 

Third, GREs

 

Fourth, everything else in the application package, such as undergraduate coursework, gpas, research manuscripts, LORs, and SOPs,

[startz]

Let me disagree slightly with Kaysa. I would put letters of recommendation in second place and demote research manuscripts and SOPs to fifth.

[economisttt]

Kaysa and startz, thanks for your opinion!

 

startz, can I just clarify what you said? So you mean:

First, who is recommender

Second, LOR

Third, GRE

Fourth, undergraduate coursework, GPA

Fifth, writing samples

 

Just to be clear, is this the order in which things are looked at, or the order of importance, or both?

[startz]

I meant order of importance, not order looked at. And "who is the recommender" is less probably less important than what the letter says. A canned letter from a Nobel prize winner won't help much. It is true though that it's better for the recommender to be someone active in research. And to Kaysa's point, a letter from someone with a connection to the department does matter more.

 

In terms of the order looked at, as several people have indicated a bad quant GRE can get you screened out.

[econman]

Wouldn't grades in math courses be up there with the LOR?

 

and what is generally seen as a bad Quant GRE Score? so many schools still have the old gre scores up on their web pages. Does it correlate accordingly? I noticed schools like brown for example say on their webpage: we rarely accept those with GRE scores lower than 760. Does that mean they would be looking for a 160+?

[tutonic]

@econman yes. A decent score for the quant section is 160+. If you can't even manage a 160 in the quant section, you'd be sending some pretty negative signals about your mathematical aptitude.

 

Referencing your other post, your 164 quant is sufficient.

[startz]

Wouldn't grades in math courses be up there with the LOR?

 

Generally no. The two are highly correlated, but there are lots of people who can do math who wouldn't make good economists and a small number of people who are not good at math who would be good economists.

[Kaysa]

No. Look, here is the deal. No one wants to be on the admissions committee. It is a total waste of our time. Our careers depend on our ability to publish research that impacts society. Admitting the best students does not help us publish, nor does it improve our chances of tenure, not that I care about that anymore, nor does it reduce our non-research workloads. Finally, it is so boring looking through 100+ nearly identical applications.

 

Here is the thing. There are a million other things we would rather be doing with our time, so the strategy is to do as little work as possible. The best strategy is to get recommendations from colleagues we trust. I go straight to the LORs, see if I know someone, and call them. A good colleague will only recommend a solid candidate, and they will also tell me exactly what I need to know to support that candidate. It takes little effort and in the end it looks like I did something. Also, I just did someone a favor.

 

I rarely have to use any other materials other than LORs. However, if I did, it would be their math classes and SOPs. My colleagues tend to go in the order mentioned above.

 

If you think this is bad just wait until you hear about the hiring committee.

 

 

 

 

Wouldn't grades in math courses be up there with the LOR?

 

and what is generally seen as a bad Quant GRE Score? so many schools still have the old gre scores up on their web pages. Does it correlate accordingly? I noticed schools like brown for example say on their webpage: we rarely accept those with GRE scores lower than 760. Does that mean they would be looking for a 160+?

[Zubrus]

Agree with the above. Speculate as much as you want. At the top schools it comes down to calls and letters.

[hkke]

Here at Rice, our admissions process is quite involved. We consider all of the things mentioned on the thread, including GRE scores, math and economics courses taken, graduate courses taken, the letters (and who writes them), research experience, and the statement of purpose. In order to make sure that we don't overlook candidates who have particular strengths in one area while having slight weaknesses in another, we have multiple rounds of reviews with different faculty members. In addition, we interview applicants prior to acceptance.

 

This does take a large amount of time, but we dedicate this time despite everyone on the admissions committee being highly active in research. The reason why we do so is that having strong graduate students helps us do our own research, and having a good placement record improves the prestige of the department.

If you have any more questions, I, together with my colleagues Jeremy Fox and Mallesh Pai, will be holding a webconference where we will answer both general and Rice-related admissions inquiries on October 21st at 10:00 AM central. If you would like to join, contact me at my official email address.

 

Best,

Hulya Eraslan

[economisttt]

Thanks startz for the clarification!

Kaysa and hkke- thanks for your very informative comments. Much appreciated.