lindseybuck95 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Hello all, I am interested in the program at UMass Amherst and wonder what you think of job prospects after attending such a university. The placement that they show on their website seems relatively good--Howard, Duke, Oxford, etc. I am interested in a job as a professor. Can you give your ideas below? Thanks, Lindsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg3 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Why would you consider attending a heterodox program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubrus Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Don't apply there. Based on your last thread I don't think you know the difference between heterodox vs mainstream well enough to go to UMass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg3 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 It's a parallel case to studying homeopathy instead of medicine, so you should really think twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 It's a parallel case to studying homeopathy instead of medicine, so you should really think twice. This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on here. I'd explain to you why, but it's entirely hopeless because you most probably lack the background in natural science and philosophy to realize even what you yourself just said. Here's a tip: don't make sweeping claims about disciplines you know nothing about. Not trying to be rude, but the arrogance in this post is too overwhelming to be ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg3 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on here. I'd explain to you why, but it's entirely hopeless because you most probably lack the background in natural science and philosophy to realize even what you yourself just said. Here's a tip: don't make sweeping claims about disciplines you know nothing about. Not trying to be rude, but the arrogance in this post is too overwhelming to be ignored. I know very well what heterodox thought is and it's my personal opinion that I presented. I don't think that a person passionate about economics should consider a heterodox program without knowing what it actually is, and it's important to make people aware that the difference is substantial. Let's say if the OP is passionate about maths and formal theory, they will be very miserable attending such a school. That's why I tried to draw a clear line so that they don't think that schools like that can provide training that one might expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I know very well what heterodox thought is and it's my personal opinion that I presented. I don't think that a person passionate about economics should consider a heterodox program without knowing what it actually is, and it's important to make people aware that the difference is substantial. Let's say if the OP is passionate about maths and formal theory, they will be very miserable attending such a school. That's why I tried to draw a clear line so that they don't think that schools like that can provide training that one might expect. If OP is interested in micro theory then he should notice that Umass has no theorists in the department (as far as I can see from a brief look). The analogy of homeopathy:medicine to heterodox:mainstream econ is what I had a problem with. You seem to have made this analogy without intending all its implications, which is understandable. Nonetheless, it is a bad analogy. I can't recommend for or against doing heterodox econ, but I can certainly argue over misconceptions of mainstream econ (parts of it at least, that I have been studying), and this analogy tripped a wire. To be fair, Jean Triole and Dani Rodrik also have tripped this wire, so you may think of me as being extremely arrogant myself - but I am confident in what I've said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindseybuck95 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 Hi all, Thank you for your opinions and advice. I’m very interested in the course load at UMass as I see it as offering different perspectives to mainstream, neoclassical economics. Also, I’m interested in getting a wide education that is somewhat more applied, as I’m a little tired of theory stuff that doesn’t seem to match reality for me. My main interests are in urban and regional economics, as well as public and political economy. I understand that I need more research on heterodox schools, but I am interested in UMass and came here for some assistance on that. Could any of you provide some more direction for me? Could you let me know how you think my education might differ at a heterodox school? Thank you in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg3 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Hi all, Thank you for your opinions and advice. I’m very interested in the course load at UMass as I see it as offering different perspectives to mainstream, neoclassical economics. Also, I’m interested in getting a wide education that is somewhat more applied, as I’m a little tired of theory stuff that doesn’t seem to match reality for me. My main interests are in urban and regional economics, as well as public and political economy. I understand that I need more research on heterodox schools, but I am interested in UMass and came here for some assistance on that. Could any of you provide some more direction for me? Could you let me know how you think my education might differ at a heterodox school? Thank you in advance. Check the faculty's interests and recent dissertations of students and see whether this is what you'd like to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubrus Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Lindsey, heterodox programs are not for people like you. You must be absolutely certain that this is what you want to do. Also, for greg3, comparing heterodox to mainstream economics as homeopathy to medicine is patently absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtuannguyen Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 One of my professor in Japan is from UMass Amherst. He is a student of James Crotty. As far as I know, he is doing well there. And I also saw some academic placements from UMass Amherst, which means that you might end up somewhere in academia. The problem is that when you are picking a very low ranking program like UMass Amherst, you just make the number of the job offers you might have in the future smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeadFlagBlue Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 If you're willing to accept the fact that it will be difficult to land a tenure-track position and are fine with the idea of working for think-tanks or public institutions, I'd recommend UMass Amherst. Those who loudly attack heterodox schools miss the point of these programs - they have a kind of comparative advantage these days in churning out people who can do great applied policy work, particularly for left-wing think-tanks. The New School and Amherst grads loom large in "progressive" policy circles. You can argue that this is because their graduates have fewer options and,I think this has something to do with it, but I think this is a bit reductive - heterodox programs churn out graduates who understand politics and, thus, graduates who understand their audience. Econ phd programs are pretty weak as far as this stuff goes. That said, UMass Amherst seems to place relatively well at selective LACs so there's hope for Amherst people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm_member Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 It's a parallel case to studying homeopathy instead of medicine, so you should really think twice. This is far from the dumbest thing I've ever read on here but I also disagree with it, except in a different way... Neither regular nor heterodox programs are like studying medicine and the education at both types of schools is likely very similar in most ways. However, left heterodox programs are focused on issues that do not proceed from the purposeful behavior of individuals. Instead, they tend to focus on the path of history and changes in institutional structure and how those act upon economic agents who may be less than perfectly rational. There is room for both at the table but, to me, heterodox economics requires some ethically-problematic assumptions by a researcher. In particular, the economic agents under a heterodox view do not have complete agency and might be best viewed as objects rather than subjects of their economic problems. This view easily leads to models and research which predict benefits from market intervention and micro or macro management of people's lives - which may be cool or not cool depending on your political views and tendency towards consequentialism. That is, you may dislike the lack of agency in heterodox models but favor a model's outcomes and policy prescriptions enough to ignore the philosophical issues with your approach. At the same time, heterodox approaches often lead to truly interesting discoveries and insights about the world around us. The issue is that many people cannot stomach the idea that individuals are not the rational decision-making machines orthodox economics assumes them to be, even if it leads to a better understanding of the world we live in. This is a meta philosophical problem if there ever were one and a great example of moral and ethical trade-offs. Lastly, right heterodox programs also focus on the path of history, changes in institutional structure, and how those act upon economic agents. However, they tend to assume that the path of history and institutions are an emergent phenomenon that comes from the purposeful behavior of individuals who face a variety of constraints. They put little emphasis on math and statistics because they are interested in understanding and explaining the origins, purpose, and goals of the various emergent institutions that we operate under (such as family, firms, law/justice, community, tribes, legislation/government, social norms, and so on). Those are often tackled on a case by case basis so that n=1, which is not ideal for econometric estimation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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