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What track should I take?


Softway

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I do not know if the first thread will appear after moderation, then I will send my question again...

 

I am old but I dream about study abroad. In fact I am becoming crazy with the idea of attend economics phd in a good university.

 

But there is a problem: I do not have the complete package. At this point I see two possible tracks.

 

Option 1: attend 8 phd courses at one of the best departments of South America. It is common they send people to top 10. If I adopt this path, I will apply when my age reach 45.

 

Option 2: take the full master degree at the same institution (the courses at master and phd are the same). Here, research experience is possible. If this route be addopted, my age will be close to 49 when I apply.

 

Do you see the dillema? I am old and the fast path will be full of holes in my application. The other choice will deepening my age problem...

 

Which do you think is the best option?

 

My profile:

 

- Business degree at a well recognized university in my country.

- MBA at another good school here.

 

I am not worried about the job market question after the PHD.

 

I know that I need improve my skills when using English...

 

I will appreciate very much your opinion...

 

Thanks!

Edited by Softway
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Tutonic,

 

It seems weird, but the explanation is simple: if I take the second option I will do it under a leave in absence at my current work, but keeping my salary, when I finish I will need return to work and spend the same time before ask for a new leave in absence... My institution do a mix of research and control. But I do not do research there...

 

I have studying math, statistics and economics for my own.

 

Option 1: I will try be sucessfull at the 8 master/phd classes (almost all the economics core)... and beg to someone give me a LOR. If I do well, it can be possible.

 

Option 2: It is the complete master. This path is too long, but I will not have problem with the LORs and will be possible have research experience, what means better LORs, except if my age will be a problem to teachers recommends me to good programs where they have contacts. I am not saying that they need make a call or something like that to help me. I want only they give me good LORs if I deserve them based on my merits as a student during the master.

 

Then we came again to the question, which is better, an old sudent with a core economics master completed and almost no research experince

or

a super old student with a full master and some research experience (and good LORs, I expected).

 

Thanks a lot!

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If this time my post pass, the sort answer is that I have some time constraint at my job. The full master will require a leave in absence (without lose my salary). After that, I will need return to the company for the same time before be allowed go out again to attend the phd program. Then we have 2 years (master, with the leave) plus 2 years to compensate the leave.
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Option 1 is a load of 8 master/phd courses (almost the economics core). I can imagine no or little research experience here. Targeting 45 year old when apply.

Option 2: a full master degree here. Standart research experience and maybe some papers in low tier journals while I wait to compensate the leave on absence.

My formal math is for more than 15 years ago, but the subjects at the school I am talking about is math heavy and I think the adcom know this…

But I have being study math for my own in the last two years and begin to have regrets of do not started a new undergraduated degree, in statistics for example, to test myself on war conditions and have a formal track of undergraduated courses...

Edited by Softway
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Softway, it is very hard for us to understand your situation. It is laid out in multiple different posts and is not easy to read (your English is not strong, which you realize, and would be a major source of concern for US phd programs).

 

From what I can tell, you are over 40 years old and have a job that will allow you some time off to obtain further education - a Master's degree in your home country. However, your employer will require you to return to work for a couple of years after you complete the program (because they will be paying for your education in some way). After you have completed the required return to work, you can then leave your job and begin a PhD. If you go that route, you will be 49 years old when you begin. The alternative is to do a few classes now and apply to PhD programs much sooner. This would save you about four years because you would not have to return to your job.

 

This creates a trade-off between the quality of preparation and the cost and time it will take to get that preparation. Only you can evaluate this trade-off because most people on this website are in their 20s and cannot relate to your situation.

 

My personal opinion is that if you are (1) pursuing a PhD for your own personal goals and (2) do not care about the job market outcome afterwards then you should go with whatever option is financially cheapest. Being 45 versus 49 will not really change your admission chances.

 

However, I also think that both options are bad ideas. If you don't have a desire to become an active researcher in an academic position after your PhD is completed then you will neither learn from the experience nor will you gain any satisfaction from it... PhDs are long and difficult. The hours of your time they require can be detrimental to your physical health and mental well-being. It will cost you dearly in terms of lost wages, lost friendships, and weakened family and romantic relationships. This is particularly true for older applicants.

 

Lastly, given your age you will likely not receive a funded offer of admission. You are a risk for any program. If you prove yourself in the first year, you will get funding in the future years but that means you will need about $50,000 to pay for tuition and basic living expenses in the first year in a US program.

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Thanks, tm_member.

 

You understood the problem. In fact, I want to do research and teaching as adjunt teacher in my country. In terms of wage, nothing will change (my salary will be the same). Off course there are some costs, like travels with the family, that will become higher.

The part of weakening family and romantic ties, really worried me...

 

But if I decide go down in this route, it is good to know that there is not a huge difference between 45 and 49.

 

Thanks a lot, tm_member.

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Yes, YaSvoboden, I have considered them.

But I think they are much more seletive, since only 3 or 4 people are admited each year.

I would like concentrate in financial economics. But I can find something more interesting in the way...

In my mind, economics programs have more room to accept an exotical applicant. I can be wrong...

Thanks

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Yes, YaSvoboden, I have considered them.

But I think they are much more seletive, since only 3 or 4 people are admited each year.

I would like concentrate in financial economics. But I can find something more interesting in the way...

In my mind, economics programs have more room to accept an exotical applicant. I can be wrong...

Thanks

 

You are mistaken. The econs PhD admission process doesn't necessarily allow for exotic applicants, barring the occasional few.

 

Your MBA and experience can be an asset if you were to pursue a business PhD. While it is true that admission into finance programmes of comparative standards are more competitive, at the very least, you can make use of your work experience + MBA. Head over to the business PhD subforum for more details. We had a couple older applicants on here who gained admission into a slew of programmes last year; they are in their late 30s-early 40s if I'm not mistaken.

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Thanks, tutonic.

But I know some cases in economics. Its rare and probably the person should have very special skills and contacts at the departments...

I have not seem its happen in business schools. People in their early 40 I can identify some cases, but at their late 40? Empty set until now in my research. Sad...

Thanks again!

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Yes, YaSvoboden, I have considered them.

But I think they are much more seletive, since only 3 or 4 people are admited each year.

I would like concentrate in financial economics. But I can find something more interesting in the way...

In my mind, economics programs have more room to accept an exotical applicant. I can be wrong...

Thanks

They are more selective, but the criteria are somewhat different. Also, the job opportunities tend to be better for finance PhDs compared to econ PhDs from the same level of school. I'm doing an accounting PhD myself. I think you should consider them.

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Thanks, tm_member.

 

You understood the problem. In fact, I want to do research and teaching as adjunt teacher in my country. In terms of wage, nothing will change (my salary will be the same). Off course there are some costs, like travels with the family, that will become higher.

The part of weakening family and romantic ties, really worried me...

 

But if I decide go down in this route, it is good to know that there is not a huge difference between 45 and 49.

 

Thanks a lot, tm_member.

 

Do you want to return to your old job after the PhD? But also teach and do research as an adjunct? If so, you have no good reason to do a PhD.

 

It makes no sense to do 5+ years of training in order to do an additional part time job.

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tm_member,

World is not black or White. There are lots of others things in the middle.

It would give me much more options inside my "company", it can works as a transition path as the retirement approaching (I do not want retire in fact but only reduce the speed). Besides that, I can teach and do research until my mind give up. My "company" has close ties with academy here in my country and some friends do research, publishing at good journals.

As I stated at the begining language is a serious barrier in my case, but I can improve...

Thanks

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Have you considered doing a PhD in your home country? It's true that in general American PhD programs are better. But will your job wait while you are physically gone for five or six years?

 

You should also think about how "good" a program you need to go to. If any American PhD will do then you will have a lot more options than if you need to go to a relatively highly ranked program.

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I consider it almost every day. In fact I am becoming crazy and make my wife crazy too. kkkk

The trade-off needs to be positive, what means I need a really good program to compensate the costs involved in such adventure. This is the reason I need a good preparation, good LORs etc... and my doubt of the better way of collect these things...

My job will be waiting for me for 4 four years...

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tm_member,

World is not black or White. There are lots of others things in the middle.

It would give me much more options inside my "company", it can works as a transition path as the retirement approaching (I do not want retire in fact but only reduce the speed). Besides that, I can teach and do research until my mind give up. My "company" has close ties with academy here in my country and some friends do research, publishing at good journals.

As I stated at the begining language is a serious barrier in my case, but I can improve...

Thanks

 

Those options in your company are unlikely to be much different if you did a lower ranked program outside the US. US programs take at least five years in 99.99999999% of cases.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I consider it almost every day. In fact I am becoming crazy and make my wife crazy too. kkkk

The trade-off needs to be positive, what means I need a really good program to compensate the costs involved in such adventure. This is the reason I need a good preparation, good LORs etc... and my doubt of the better way of collect these things...

My job will be waiting for me for 4 four years...

 

I just saw the above post.

 

Please listen to your wife.

 

In any case, four years is simply not enough to complete a good PhD program. It's actually not enough time for any PhD program worth doing. You should read this paper on PhD completion rates - https://dspace.mit.edu/openaccess-disseminate/1721.1/73049. The paper is using data from almost a decade ago. The median for entering classes is now six years. You should assume that you will be at or above the median time given you have family and other challenges that other students do not face.

 

You only want to do a "good" PhD program but you are unprepared and cannot commit to the typical 6 year time frame that will take.

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Softway, what do you mean by having studied math/econ on your own? Do you have any formal training in college-level math? Are you currently able to complete, for example, the exercises in Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis or a similar book?

 

My formal training was more than 15 years ago. I have been refreshing it and now I am finishing multivariated calculus and linear algebra. I can understand the basics of real analysis at Rudin´s level. Those six or eight classes that I spoke about at the begin include graduate level analysis and theoretical probability... Then I will have formal math to show...

 

It is too late to take formal undergraduate classes... :blue:

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Dear tm_member,

 

I know you want help me and, in fact, you sounds like a good friend, but I will try to do the program abroad.

My wife part was only in the sense that my doubts make she confused. But she is supportive in the case the opportunity of atend the program abroad shows up.

The four years limit is related to the physical attendance. I can manage to conclude in 6 or more years if necessary, since it be possible prepare the thesis from my home country (returning to participate of some meetings and to defend the thesis).

I am totally aware of my weakenesses and because of that I came to this space to ask for advice...

I have taken the decision of go to a phd program. My A plan is to do it abroad. My B plan is to do it here in my country. I will pay the costs... Kill my marriage is not an acceptable one thought... If I feel it will be the case, the A plan will be aborted. Easy!

 

Thanks again!

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