Chances top Econ PhD: GRE 780 Quantitative

[andrelo]

Hello friends,

I am from Argentina. I want to apply for Econ PhD at top US universities. I took the GRE yestarday and my scores are:

 

GRE: 570V/780Q

 

I am economist and I have a MA in Economics. I have a very good recommendation letter from a professor who works in a top 5 University. Could you please evaluate my real chances at top universities. I felt quite disappointed yesterday alter knowing my quantitative GRE score. Do you think that I need to retake the test?

[OneMoreEcon]

780Q should be fine... sure, an 800 would have been nicer, but the GRE score shouldn't really hurt you.

 

Can't really give more advice without knowing more about your profile... but the strong recommendation from a professor at a Top 5 school will definitely help.

[andrelo]

Hi!! Thanks for your answer. Here is a more detailed profile, could you evaluate it please?

 

Undergrad: from an argentinian economic school, relatively unkonwn. I ended with a 3.6 GPA, economic major. Took lot of econ and math courses(3 semestar math - 4 semester economics).

 

Grad: MA program of one of the best MA in economics program in Latin America. MA coursework includes: 2 Micro Theory (MasColel-Whinston-Green), Game Theory (Fudenberg and Tirole) and Macro Theory (Sargent and Ljungqvist), Dynamic Programming (Stockey, Lucas and Prescott), Real Analysis (Bartle-Royden), Econometrics (Greene), Time Series (Hamilton). Also more basic math and probability courses as well as other short courses (such as Panel Data Theory, Economic Growth Topics, Mechanism Design, etc).

 

I'm working (since sep 05) as RA of a prof in a top 5 university. This guy is really good (his work has been published in JPE, AER , etc). Im sure I have a recommendation letter from this profesor.

 

My GREs: I took it just once (last monday) 570VQ/780Q

(i dont have the AW results)

 

Do you think I have real chances at top (say, top 10 - top 5) universities. Im worried because my quantitative GRE score. Could this eliminate my profile from some top universities?

[asquare]

The GRE score won't eliminate you (though with a score below 800, the percentile, not just the score, is important -- the percentile will be included in the written score report you will receive via mail, along with your AWA score).

 

Provided your grades from the masters program are good, it sounds like you have a reasonable shot at top schools. You'll need more than one strong recommendation letter, and it will help you to start thinking about how to develop and describe your own research agenda, showing that you can move from RA work into independent research.

[andrelo]

Hi asquare! Thanks for your advice.

 

Master grades, my GPA there is near 3.7-3.8. I think it is high enough, isnt it?

 

As regards the other 2 recommendation letters, I could also get another strong one (may be not so strong as the one I mentioned above). The last

one is also good, but the professor is not as recognized as the other two.

 

I wasnt aware of what you're saying to me of "develop and describe your own research agenda". Is this really important? This is related to the "personal statement" I need to write, right? Could you please give me more adivice on this?

 

Finally, and again related to the GRE, what Q-percentile would you think would be a problem for my application?

[asquare]

andrelo, whether the GPA is "high enough" depends in part on the reputation of the program and the average GPA for graduates of the program. It sounds like a very strong program, so your GPA should put you in the running.

 

It's much more important that your recommendations come from professors who can write honestly, enthusiastically, and positively about your ability to do well in graduate school than that they come from famous economists. It certainly helps if the people who know you best are very well known :) but you have one recommendation in that category already. Get the other two from the professors who know and admire your work the most, not from those who have the biggest reputations.

 

As for developing your own research agenda -- yes, it has to do with the statement of purpose. Just make sure that instead of describing only how good you are at being an RA, you describe how being an RA has prepared you to do your own research, and to come up with your own ideas.

 

I don't know of an absolute cutoff, but I would guess that quant GRE scores below the 80th percentile, regardless of the absolute score, could be problematic.

[andrelo]

Thanks for your help again asquare.

 

Regarding the Q-GRE scrore, I found the following information at Harvard:

 

Admissions Information 2004-2005:

Number of Applications Received: 671

Number Admitted: 46

GRE Scores (Admitted Applicants) Quantitative: 770-800

Average: 796

Analytical: 700-800 (3-6)

Average: 784 (5.2)

(http://www.gsas.harvard.edu/programs/degree/econ.html)

 

It doesnt help much, but it suggests there's small (though postiive!!!) probability for Q-GRE between 770-790.

 

I will take your advice regarding the "personal statement" seriously.

[pseudo-random]

asquare: "Just make sure that instead of describing only how good you are at being an RA, you describe how being an RA has prepared you to do your own research, and to come up with your own ideas."

 

I think this is a point worth noting (am definitely noting it for myself).

[andrelo]

Hi pseudo-random. Thanks for your comment.

 

Why do you think what asquare wrote isn't important? I've heard universities take this 'personal statement' very seriously ("believe it or not" they emphasize in their web pages) and that they expect that you would be able to define your interests beyond the usual broad classifications of micro, macro and so on (of course, they dont expect you to define your Ph.D. topic exactly).

 

Do you have more information or experiences regarding this?

[Nalfien]

I think the SOP really is something you can screw-up on but not really excel at. It doesn't matter if you know what you want to do, mention every great thing that has happened at the school and plan to save the world- everyone can say that. I think the SOP is really only there to see if an applicant just doen't know what he is getting into like if it says "I want to get a PhD in economics because I think it will be fun and easy and I'll make a lot of money." Of course I exaggerate but I think you get my point...

[Econ07]

780Q will not completely ruin your application. But it wouldn't be bad to play it safe and take it again, if you can.

[andrelo]

Thanks for your advice Econ07.

 

Originally, and after my Q780 experience, I was considering seriously taking the GRE again after “playing safe” as you suggest Econ07. Now I’m not sure and this is my reasoning:

I know a Q800 would be optimal, BUT is it the Q780 so bad? I mean, does it destroy my chances of getting in a top university? A week ago I thought it did. But now, and after speaking about this with some professors and with the persons are going to give me the LORs, they all insist in the same thing: “a Q780 isn’t that bad if you can compensate it with other fields (i.e. LOR). A good QGRE doesn’t guarantee you anything. But a bad one destroys your application. A Q780 is not the optimal, but it is not bad at all”.

I’m not sure what to do. What do u think of the above reasoning? Does it make any sense for u?

[snappythecrab]

A good QGRE doesn’t guarantee you anything. But a bad one destroys your application. A Q780 is not the optimal, but it is not bad at all.

I agree with this completely. Unless you are 100% sure you can do better, I wouldn't take it again. Last year I scored a 770 initially. I re-took it and scored a 710 - how I'm not sure, but I did. The "sad" thing was I had a very solid profile (3.98 econ, 3.85 math at a top uni, two RAships, coauthor, independent research, and great recs) and stood a decent chance of landing a top five or thereabouts. I applied to twelve out of the top 15 or so, and got into LSE and Wisc. If there was any one thing that kept me out, it was my GRE Q score.