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Markos · 09-15-2006, 09:22 PM

Hi folks,

I was supposed to start at a Ph.D. program in Economics this fall at a university ranked (econphd.net ranking) 280 - 300. I decided to take the GRE and apply to a few other programs better ranked for fall 2007. I took my GRE today and got a 660Q and 570V. I won't be able to take the GRE again (at least not before the new year, which would be too late). My question for you guys is - do you think I have a chance anywhere in the 100 - 200 ranking range with some type of aid? I know most people here are aiming for the top-50 and would probably retake the test, but I will appreciate it if you share your knowledge of admissions at low-ranked universities taking my profile as is.
Other aspects of my application will be:
Overall GPA: 3.99, Math GPA: 3.92, Econ GPA: 4.0
Math (related) courses: Calc I-III, Linear Algebra, Intro to proofs, Business Statistics, Introduction to Econometrics.
Schools I am considering are:
Kentucky, Connecticut, Louisiana State, Wyoming.
I am also interested in applied econoimcs areas (such as environmental and resource economics).
Please let me know your honest opinoin. Thank you.

Jhai · 09-15-2006, 11:16 PM

You might consider looking at some public policy schools (since you seem to be interested in applied econ areas). They typically have less stringent math requirements, which means they won't count the relatively low Quant GRET against you as much, and you can transition into econ programs after you get you Ph.D

Sorry, but I don't know anything about the programs you listed, so I can't help you much there. Have you throughly searched their websites to see if they have any data on the average accepted applicant?

rollingstone · 09-16-2006, 12:33 AM

I think you should definitely consider retaking the GRE, 660Q is not acceptable to many people. you should be able to boost it up provided your other credentials. Maybe you just had a bad day last time.

butler blue · 09-16-2006, 10:27 PM

I don't know a whole lot about the schools you're looking at, but I checked out the reports in GRE PowerPrep and here's what I found:

The median Quant score for Ph.D. Econ applicants is 750.

A 660 is at the 18th percentile of applicants.

Draw what conclusions you will from that data. To me it seems that the bottom 20% of applicants probably don't get in, but I don't really know. It'd be really nice if you could talk to someone at one of those schools to see if they have a cutoff.

asquare · 09-16-2006, 10:53 PM

Your quant score is going to hurt you -- and something to consider is that a very low quant score combined with a very high GPA may also make the adcom question the quality or grading standards of your undergrad university. They may think, "if someone who scores a 660 can get a 3.9 in math classes, the math classes might be graded easily." Now, that's not necessarily true and it's not necessarily fair (some people just don't do well on standardized tests, for example), but it's possible. If your undergrad university isn't well known, I think the combination of that with your GRE score could turn out to be a big problem for you at schools in the range you are targeting. I don't know for sure, but butler_blue's statistics are certainly concerning for your chances.

The idea of applying to policy programs isn't a bad one. It's true that the expectations for GRE quant scores aren't as high as in econ programs, though that 660 may still keep you out of the top programs. But you have to consider that the research you do in a policy program, and your options after graduation, will be different than what you do in an econ program. If you really want to study economics, you should see if you can get that score up to around a 750.

Markos · 09-17-2006, 12:19 AM

Thanks all for your input. My undergrad institution was one of the U of Wisc system campuses and, although I don't know how tough the grading is at other universities, I had to work really hard to get that 3.9 in math classes. To be honest, my SATs were poor predictors of how I would perform as a math minor as well. And I really don't do well on standardized tests. But asquare put forth a very good point, if the grading at my university was really "easy", then I should really consider if a Ph.D. in economics is really for me. I wanna think of this with an open mind. But keep in mind that I have already been admitted to a university ranked 280-300, but I will do mostly teaching when I am done with the Ph.D., which I am fine with to some extent. I also want to emphasize that I don't aspire to become a hardcore economist...i don't know if that's everybody's dream in this forum. That's why I am considering applied areas of economics and doing a ph.d. in that area (since I wanna teach also). But as I have been focusing on econ, I don't know what the academic labor market for related fields would be....or even the non-academic. Some of the programs I am considering are (applied econ at Minnesota, economic sociology at WI, sustainable development at Columbia)...i guess those may not be a reach for me afterall????

asquare · 09-17-2006, 12:46 AM

Markos, I'm sorry to seem negative, but those programs are still really competitive. For example, the sustainable development program at Columbia specifically states "The GRE General Test is required of all applicants. In fact, the quantitative scores should be above 700, particularly for applicants who have not had prior calculus course work." The website for the economic sociology program at Wisconsin states that "We consider a GRE score below the 50th percentile to be weak and a GRE above the 75th percentile to be good."

I think that wanting to teach (at the university level) is a really good reason for wanting to pursue a PhD. Are you willing to take a non-tenured position or teach at a non-four-year institution? Those seem like positions you could get coming out of the school you've already been admitted to.

I don't know about the marginal job market benefit of attending a slightly hire ranked applied econ PhD over a lower-ranked economics program. That's the kind of advice you should really ask for from your professors. But if you are really serious about the applied econ option, I believe that VA Tech has a decent program in applied or ag economics that may have less stringent admissions requirements. Also, you might really benefit from taking a GRE prep course. A lot of that test is about test taking skills and strategies, and with your math background, you should really be able to improve your score just by learning some tricks about the test.

butler blue · 09-17-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asquare

Markos, I'm sorry to seem negative, but those programs are still really competitive. For example, the sustainable development program at Columbia specifically states "The GRE General Test is required of all applicants. In fact, the quantitative scores should be above 700, particularly for applicants who have not had prior calculus course work." The website for the economic sociology program at Wisconsin states that "We consider a GRE score below the 50th percentile to be weak and a GRE above the 75th percentile to be good."

Yeah, my understanding of the sustainable development program at Columbia is the same. I thought about applying to it for a while but I decided against it because they don't let you apply to both it and the econ program. Plus, I honestly doubt that I'd get in.

As for the economic sociology program...I don't know. The stats I listed above were all specifically for prospective econ phd students. When you generalize it to all phd applicants, a 660 becomes the 60th percentile (again from my version of PowerPrep). So, that program may actually lie in the realm of possibility. Does it provide better job prospects than an econ program you could get into? I have no idea...

scheng75 · 09-17-2006, 06:20 AM

I don't know the programs you mentioned but I think you have a good shot at the 100-200 ranked programs. I think the more important question is would you still go if you're not fully funded? I had a friend with approximately the same profile and about 650Q and got into George Washington U, pretty respectable but no funding. She went anyway. A lot of people see no funding as a no but if you are able or willing to fund yourself then I think you have a good chance.

Explorer · 09-17-2006, 01:48 PM

Do you mean no funding for the first year or no funding for the entire time it takes you to finish th Ph.D.? Well, for the first year, I might be willing to go with partial funding; otherwise, my financial situation does not allow it unfortunately.

09-15-2006, 09:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Markos Eager! Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 34	Desperately need some Peer advice. Hi folks, I was supposed to start at a Ph.D. program in Economics this fall at a university ranked (econphd.net ranking) 280 - 300. I decided to take the GRE and apply to a few other programs better ranked for fall 2007. I took my GRE today and got a 660Q and 570V. I won't be able to take the GRE again (at least not before the new year, which would be too late). My question for you guys is - do you think I have a chance anywhere in the 100 - 200 ranking range with some type of aid? I know most people here are aiming for the top-50 and would probably retake the test, but I will appreciate it if you share your knowledge of admissions at low-ranked universities taking my profile as is. Other aspects of my application will be: Overall GPA: 3.99, Math GPA: 3.92, Econ GPA: 4.0 Math (related) courses: Calc I-III, Linear Algebra, Intro to proofs, Business Statistics, Introduction to Econometrics. Schools I am considering are: Kentucky, Connecticut, Louisiana State, Wyoming. I am also interested in applied econoimcs areas (such as environmental and resource economics). Please let me know your honest opinoin. Thank you.

09-17-2006, 06:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
scheng75 TestMagic fan! Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: CA Posts: 660	I don't know the programs you mentioned but I think you have a good shot at the 100-200 ranked programs. I think the more important question is would you still go if you're not fully funded? I had a friend with approximately the same profile and about 650Q and got into George Washington U, pretty respectable but no funding. She went anyway. A lot of people see no funding as a no but if you are able or willing to fund yourself then I think you have a good chance. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ Vice President The Economics Fan Club Memberships are exclusive and subject to a deep appreciation of the finer points.

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09-15-2006, 11:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jhai Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Greencastle, IN Posts: 312	You might consider looking at some public policy schools (since you seem to be interested in applied econ areas). They typically have less stringent math requirements, which means they won't count the relatively low Quant GRET against you as much, and you can transition into econ programs after you get you Ph.D Sorry, but I don't know anything about the programs you listed, so I can't help you much there. Have you throughly searched their websites to see if they have any data on the average accepted applicant?

09-16-2006, 12:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
rollingstone Eager! Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 60	I think you should definitely consider retaking the GRE, 660Q is not acceptable to many people. you should be able to boost it up provided your other credentials. Maybe you just had a bad day last time.

09-16-2006, 10:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
butler blue Within my grasp! Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 438	I don't know a whole lot about the schools you're looking at, but I checked out the reports in GRE PowerPrep and here's what I found: The median Quant score for Ph.D. Econ applicants is 750. A 660 is at the 18th percentile of applicants. Draw what conclusions you will from that data. To me it seems that the bottom 20% of applicants probably don't get in, but I don't really know. It'd be really nice if you could talk to someone at one of those schools to see if they have a cutoff.

09-16-2006, 10:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,311	Your quant score is going to hurt you -- and something to consider is that a very low quant score combined with a very high GPA may also make the adcom question the quality or grading standards of your undergrad university. They may think, "if someone who scores a 660 can get a 3.9 in math classes, the math classes might be graded easily." Now, that's not necessarily true and it's not necessarily fair (some people just don't do well on standardized tests, for example), but it's possible. If your undergrad university isn't well known, I think the combination of that with your GRE score could turn out to be a big problem for you at schools in the range you are targeting. I don't know for sure, but butler_blue's statistics are certainly concerning for your chances. The idea of applying to policy programs isn't a bad one. It's true that the expectations for GRE quant scores aren't as high as in econ programs, though that 660 may still keep you out of the top programs. But you have to consider that the research you do in a policy program, and your options after graduation, will be different than what you do in an econ program. If you really want to study economics, you should see if you can get that score up to around a 750.

09-17-2006, 12:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
Markos Eager! Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 34	Thanks all for your input. My undergrad institution was one of the U of Wisc system campuses and, although I don't know how tough the grading is at other universities, I had to work really hard to get that 3.9 in math classes. To be honest, my SATs were poor predictors of how I would perform as a math minor as well. And I really don't do well on standardized tests. But asquare put forth a very good point, if the grading at my university was really "easy", then I should really consider if a Ph.D. in economics is really for me. I wanna think of this with an open mind. But keep in mind that I have already been admitted to a university ranked 280-300, but I will do mostly teaching when I am done with the Ph.D., which I am fine with to some extent. I also want to emphasize that I don't aspire to become a hardcore economist...i don't know if that's everybody's dream in this forum. That's why I am considering applied areas of economics and doing a ph.d. in that area (since I wanna teach also). But as I have been focusing on econ, I don't know what the academic labor market for related fields would be....or even the non-academic. Some of the programs I am considering are (applied econ at Minnesota, economic sociology at WI, sustainable development at Columbia)...i guess those may not be a reach for me afterall????

09-17-2006, 12:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,311	Markos, I'm sorry to seem negative, but those programs are still really competitive. For example, the sustainable development program at Columbia specifically states "The GRE General Test is required of all applicants. In fact, the quantitative scores should be above 700, particularly for applicants who have not had prior calculus course work." The website for the economic sociology program at Wisconsin states that "We consider a GRE score below the 50th percentile to be weak and a GRE above the 75th percentile to be good." I think that wanting to teach (at the university level) is a really good reason for wanting to pursue a PhD. Are you willing to take a non-tenured position or teach at a non-four-year institution? Those seem like positions you could get coming out of the school you've already been admitted to. I don't know about the marginal job market benefit of attending a slightly hire ranked applied econ PhD over a lower-ranked economics program. That's the kind of advice you should really ask for from your professors. But if you are really serious about the applied econ option, I believe that VA Tech has a decent program in applied or ag economics that may have less stringent admissions requirements. Also, you might really benefit from taking a GRE prep course. A lot of that test is about test taking skills and strategies, and with your math background, you should really be able to improve your score just by learning some tricks about the test.

09-17-2006, 01:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
Explorer Eager! Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 91	Do you mean no funding for the first year or no funding for the entire time it takes you to finish th Ph.D.? Well, for the first year, I might be willing to go with partial funding; otherwise, my financial situation does not allow it unfortunately.

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