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gredow · 09-22-2006, 05:01 PM

thanks for your suggestion on online math courses- an option i hadn't considered.

well i've only had cal 1 so 2 & 3 will be new to me. should i still use the 1,000+ pg stewart book?

taking cal 1-3, analysis, math stats, wont do me any good as far as influencing what programs i get into in fall 07, but assuming they're offered and i can take them, is 11 months enough time to go through this material and be ready and not be distracted by a math deficiency first year?

i was looking at top 20 schools but since i dont have the above-mentioned math do i even have a shot? my undergrad gpa 3.68, solid LOR's from a state college, all the standard econ classes for a BA econ, i am retaking the GRE because previously i scored a pitiful 650Q 510V.

i am wondering if it will be wiser, as a canadian peer on here suggested, to take a MA before continuing on to PhD. Would that help me get into a better PhD program assuming i do well in the MA? Wouldnt i be as busy with an MA as i would in the first couple yrs of a PhD to not have time for Math there either?

shootermcgavin7 · 09-22-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gredow

thanks for your suggestion on online math courses- an option i hadn't considered.

well i've only had cal 1 so 2 & 3 will be new to me. should i still use the 1,000+ pg stewart book?

taking cal 1-3, analysis, math stats, wont do me any good as far as influencing what programs i get into in fall 07, but assuming they're offered and i can take them, is 11 months enough time to go through this material and be ready and not be distracted by a math deficiency first year?

i was looking at top 20 schools but since i dont have the above-mentioned math do i even have a shot? my undergrad gpa 3.68, solid LOR's from a state college, all the standard econ classes for a BA econ, i am retaking the GRE because previously i scored a pitiful 650Q 510V.

i am wondering if it will be wiser, as a canadian peer on here suggested, to take a MA before continuing on to PhD. Would that help me get into a better PhD program assuming i do well in the MA? Wouldnt i be as busy with an MA as i would in the first couple yrs of a PhD to not have time for Math there either?

PM me and I'll tell you exactly how my timing worked out.

TruDog · 09-23-2006, 03:43 AM

You should still use the 1,000 page-plus Stewart book because the smaller one only covers calc III.

OneMoreEcon · 09-23-2006, 04:59 AM

Use the 1000+ pg Stewart book. Formal coursework is the way to go, but do online if you must. No matter what, make sure you get grades for courses (i.e. self-study is great for preparation, but not useful at all for admissions purposes). I actually found Stewart to be pretty easy to study on your own (even though I was taking classes).

Only fall courses will count for admissions purposes, and it will hurt you a great deal. In your situation, it's best to either space the math out over two years or apply to masters programs this year (feel free to add some PhD apps, but don't expect much without multivariable calc). Quite frankly, top 20 won't happen with only Calc II unless you have some famous people writing amazing LORs for you.

Some MA programs will allow enough flexibility to take extra math courses. Check the program requirements, and ask on here. Several TMians have taken extra math while doing MA degrees.

As for how long the math takes, I'll post what I did below. I'm a first-year PhD at Johns Hopkins. After one undergrad degree (which had some upper-level econ electives), I decided to do grad econ. That meant I needed more math and went back for a math & econ double-major (the last few stats courses were electives for my econ degree even though they were in the stats dept... and I think this is all of it). I did two years of work and applied in the fall of my second year. Also, submitted fall grades with analysis, etc.

Fall
Calc I
Discrete Math (lots of logic/proofs)
Intro to Applied Stats
Intermediate Micro
Intermediate Macro

Spring
Calc II
Linear Algebra
C Programming (req for math major)
Game Theory
Econometrics

Summer
ODE
Probability
Calc III
Individual Study (Stats dept)

Fall
Adv Calc I (real analysis)
Abstract Algebra I
Math Econ
Monetary Theory (or something like that)

Spring
Adv Calc II
Abstract Algebra II
Topology I (grad)
Math Stats
Time Series

Summer
Applied Graph Theory (grad)
Individual study (econ dept)

gredow · 09-25-2006, 06:44 PM

thanks to all for your constructive criticism. i realize i am deficient in math and have all but decided to start a MA program first to lead into a phd.

if im taking math this winter, spring, summer, and fall, considering i have just business. calc and 1 yr of statistics, in what sequence do you suggest i take my maths, in order to be in a good position to apply to top 20 schools in fall 07?

thanks again for your suggestions. i wish i knew about this forum a year ago!!!

werther · 09-25-2006, 08:01 PM

regarding your last question about the sequence of math courses and the time you have, i think it really depends on the school you are currently attending and the courses that are being offered; you should really check the course calendars/schedule of classes (if available) and try to work out a possible timetable from there.

i was in somewhat same situation as you, because i was in business for the first two years of my undergrad and starting my junior year i did catch-up with required econ courses (switched to honours econ), as well as trying to fit in some math. i'm almost finished my econ req's but stilll very deficient in math - the way i did it was:

(previous math background from freshman/junior years: business stats, business calculus, all quite useless IMO).

this summer i took:

- introduction to logic and sets
- intro linear algebra
- calculus I
- calulus II

this fall i am taking

- set theory (continuation of intro to logic & sets)
- game theory from math dept
- + econ courses

winter i am taking

- introduction to analysis (real analysis I) - pre-req for this course is only intro to logic and set theory
- + econ

summer:

- probability
- calculus III
- ODE

and then hopefully fall 2007 i will enter MA Econ. i figure above should be enough for Master's in Econ. if i know for sure i want to pursue PhD, i'll probably apply for fall 2009 entry; i can probably fit in some extra math after i finish up my MA since it's only 1 year program. anyway, good luck with your course planning.

gredow · 09-25-2006, 08:18 PM

thanks for your help. i know for certain i want a econ phd. i have looked at courses berkeley recommends. i just wish i knew about all these math requirements a couple yrs ago when i was 1 yr out of undergrad. its my own fault for lack of planning. now i am paying the price i suppose. it seems counter-intuitive, a math or physics or engineering major is in a better position for econ phd than an econ major, which i was. shoulda woulda coulda. thanks again, good luck yourself.

09-22-2006, 05:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
gredow Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 16	thanks for your suggestion on online math courses- an option i hadn't considered. well i've only had cal 1 so 2 & 3 will be new to me. should i still use the 1,000+ pg stewart book? taking cal 1-3, analysis, math stats, wont do me any good as far as influencing what programs i get into in fall 07, but assuming they're offered and i can take them, is 11 months enough time to go through this material and be ready and not be distracted by a math deficiency first year? i was looking at top 20 schools but since i dont have the above-mentioned math do i even have a shot? my undergrad gpa 3.68, solid LOR's from a state college, all the standard econ classes for a BA econ, i am retaking the GRE because previously i scored a pitiful 650Q 510V. i am wondering if it will be wiser, as a canadian peer on here suggested, to take a MA before continuing on to PhD. Would that help me get into a better PhD program assuming i do well in the MA? Wouldnt i be as busy with an MA as i would in the first couple yrs of a PhD to not have time for Math there either? Last edited by gredow : 09-22-2006 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Automerged post

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09-23-2006, 03:43 AM	#13 (permalink)
TruDog TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Midwest US Posts: 558	You should still use the 1,000 page-plus Stewart book because the smaller one only covers calc III.

09-23-2006, 04:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
OneMoreEcon TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 516	Use the 1000+ pg Stewart book. Formal coursework is the way to go, but do online if you must. No matter what, make sure you get grades for courses (i.e. self-study is great for preparation, but not useful at all for admissions purposes). I actually found Stewart to be pretty easy to study on your own (even though I was taking classes). Only fall courses will count for admissions purposes, and it will hurt you a great deal. In your situation, it's best to either space the math out over two years or apply to masters programs this year (feel free to add some PhD apps, but don't expect much without multivariable calc). Quite frankly, top 20 won't happen with only Calc II unless you have some famous people writing amazing LORs for you. Some MA programs will allow enough flexibility to take extra math courses. Check the program requirements, and ask on here. Several TMians have taken extra math while doing MA degrees. As for how long the math takes, I'll post what I did below. I'm a first-year PhD at Johns Hopkins. After one undergrad degree (which had some upper-level econ electives), I decided to do grad econ. That meant I needed more math and went back for a math & econ double-major (the last few stats courses were electives for my econ degree even though they were in the stats dept... and I think this is all of it). I did two years of work and applied in the fall of my second year. Also, submitted fall grades with analysis, etc. Fall Calc I Discrete Math (lots of logic/proofs) Intro to Applied Stats Intermediate Micro Intermediate Macro Spring Calc II Linear Algebra C Programming (req for math major) Game Theory Econometrics Summer ODE Probability Calc III Individual Study (Stats dept) Fall Adv Calc I (real analysis) Abstract Algebra I Math Econ Monetary Theory (or something like that) Spring Adv Calc II Abstract Algebra II Topology I (grad) Math Stats Time Series Summer Applied Graph Theory (grad) Individual study (econ dept)

09-25-2006, 06:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
gredow Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 16	thanks to all for your constructive criticism. i realize i am deficient in math and have all but decided to start a MA program first to lead into a phd. if im taking math this winter, spring, summer, and fall, considering i have just business. calc and 1 yr of statistics, in what sequence do you suggest i take my maths, in order to be in a good position to apply to top 20 schools in fall 07? thanks again for your suggestions. i wish i knew about this forum a year ago!!!

09-25-2006, 08:01 PM	#16 (permalink)
werther a ghost Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 334	regarding your last question about the sequence of math courses and the time you have, i think it really depends on the school you are currently attending and the courses that are being offered; you should really check the course calendars/schedule of classes (if available) and try to work out a possible timetable from there. i was in somewhat same situation as you, because i was in business for the first two years of my undergrad and starting my junior year i did catch-up with required econ courses (switched to honours econ), as well as trying to fit in some math. i'm almost finished my econ req's but stilll very deficient in math - the way i did it was: (previous math background from freshman/junior years: business stats, business calculus, all quite useless IMO). this summer i took: - introduction to logic and sets - intro linear algebra - calculus I - calulus II this fall i am taking - set theory (continuation of intro to logic & sets) - game theory from math dept - + econ courses winter i am taking - introduction to analysis (real analysis I) - pre-req for this course is only intro to logic and set theory - + econ summer: - probability - calculus III - ODE and then hopefully fall 2007 i will enter MA Econ. i figure above should be enough for Master's in Econ. if i know for sure i want to pursue PhD, i'll probably apply for fall 2009 entry; i can probably fit in some extra math after i finish up my MA since it's only 1 year program. anyway, good luck with your course planning.

09-25-2006, 08:18 PM	#17 (permalink)
gredow Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 16	thanks for your help. i know for certain i want a econ phd. i have looked at courses berkeley recommends. i just wish i knew about all these math requirements a couple yrs ago when i was 1 yr out of undergrad. its my own fault for lack of planning. now i am paying the price i suppose. it seems counter-intuitive, a math or physics or engineering major is in a better position for econ phd than an econ major, which i was. shoulda woulda coulda. thanks again, good luck yourself.

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