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eimmot · 11-02-2006, 01:14 AM

placement recards are bad out there?

asquare · 11-02-2006, 01:51 AM

eimmot, the last two years have not been good years for Cornell grads on the job market. They have students from those two years who don't seem to have any placements. However, without knowing their individual situations, it's hard to know why Cornell students haven't been successful in the past few years. In 2003, the department had some very good placements (Cambridge, amongst others). You should take a look at the placements yourself, and draw your own conclusions. If you are really concerned, you could also contact the school or see if you can speak to a current student.

Zavera had a bad visit at Cornell, and seems to have a huge axe to grind with Cornell. (You can click on his name and find his other posts about Cornell). I'd take his opinion on this subject with a grain of salt, personally. He's right that recent Cornell placements have been poor, but his unrelenting trashing of the program seems more personal than grounded in reality.

user_name · 11-02-2006, 02:42 AM

Compared to UW-Madison (right above) and U Michigan (right below), Cornell's academic placements do look shitty.

OneMoreEcon · 11-02-2006, 06:04 AM

I think I was pretty objective regarding Cornell's placements, since I seriously considered their offer. But really, most of their placements in recent years suck real bad. I'd love to be on the faculty one day, but they don't seem to give a rat's a*s about the grad students. Ehrenberg seemed to be a definite exception and has gotten some really good placements for his students. Oh, and the recent Minnesota placement wasn't in the UMN econ dept... it was another dept (yeah, it's misleading).

eimmot · 11-03-2006, 09:03 AM

hey, i have just taken a look with the placement records of LSE, Oxford and cambridge; they have pretty good placement results.
Is it reallt truly a less desirable alternative to go UK?

user_name · 11-03-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eimmot

hey, i have just taken a look with the placement records of LSE, Oxford and cambridge; they have pretty good placement results.
Is it reallt truly a less desirable alternative to go UK?

I think if you are funded, they're great.

Corneconomics · 11-03-2006, 09:43 PM

Ouch, reading this post hurts a bit. You guys are right, our placements have been less than stellar recently, although its hard to tell, since our website is so shitty (its even worse than our recent placements). On the other hand, if you are interested in development or labor, we've got great people to work with.

I'm a bit hesitant to cast the blame publically, but I have my suspisions what the problem is. If I'm right, then I'm pretty sure that things could change quickly; and even if they don't, ambitious students will be able to overcome the... umm... problem.

Econ2006 · 11-04-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMoreEcon

I think I was pretty objective regarding Cornell's placements, since I seriously considered their offer. But really, most of their placements in recent years suck real bad. I'd love to be on the faculty one day, but they don't seem to give a rat's a*s about the grad students. Ehrenberg seemed to be a definite exception and has gotten some really good placements for his students. Oh, and the recent Minnesota placement wasn't in the UMN econ dept... it was another dept (yeah, it's misleading).

The further a program gets from top-10, the sketchier placements will be. As far as I can tell, U. Texas or UC Davis have been the best placements Johns Hopkins has had in the past 15 years. Should we then conclude that the faculty at Hopkins don't care about the graduate students there? If not, why do you think this is the case at Cornell?

OneMoreEcon · 11-05-2006, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Econ2006

The further a program gets from top-10, the sketchier placements will be.

I completely agree, and I don't think it's fair to make sweeping generalizations based on a small subset of all recent placements. My apologies if it appeared that I was only taking into consideration a *few* placements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Econ2006

As far as I can tell, U. Texas or UC Davis have been the best placements Johns Hopkins has had in the past 15 years. Should we then conclude that the faculty at Hopkins don't care about the graduate students there? If not, why do you think this is the case at Cornell?

You should've called out the UM-Baltimore County placement. That's terrible, even though I assume he was teaching there while finishing his PhD and just accepted an offer out of laziness or family reasons.

I wouldn't say that Hopkins has the most supportive environment, by any stretch of the imagination. And it seems to me like too many people stick around here for a sixth year before hitting the job market.

Honestly, I expected more from Cornell than from Hopkins, especially on the labor side of things, because there's a much more extensive faculty there, and the school is top knotch in labor, among other fields. There are good placements from Cornell (the best ones are definitely above what Hopkins has put out in recent years), but there's a large number of weak placements. And, as asquare pointed out (and was clear from last year's job market candidates), there are students going without placements. Only a few, but that's an awful sign to me.

Econ2006 · 11-05-2006, 07:02 AM

It's clear that placements at Cornell haven't been that great recently. The explanation I received was that class sizes were quite large several years ago, and that the program admitted students who were clearly less qualified than in the past. If this explanation is true, then it should work itself out over the next few years, since Cornell has become quite a bit more strict regarding admitting students with weaker math/research backgrounds (according to an adcom faculty member). Given the program's placement history prior to the last two or three years, my guess is that top students will still have a shot at quality academic positions.

At the same time, the placement list on Cornell's website is definitely incomplete. Individuals who received placements are not listed (like, for example, Kerwin Charles, a labor guy who was placed at Michigan in 1995), and individuals who are listed without placements were actually placed (there are at least three people on the list from 2005 who have no placement listed, but are actually teaching in econ. departments or working for foreign governments).

Bottom line is that from what I've seen and heard as a student here, there's very little reason to believe that recent placements at Cornell are the result of indifferent or unsupportive faculty. If anything, the faculty remain constant over time, while student quality varies.

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11-02-2006, 01:14 AM	#11 (permalink)
eimmot Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10	placement recards are bad out there?

11-02-2006, 01:51 AM	#12 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,381	eimmot, the last two years have not been good years for Cornell grads on the job market. They have students from those two years who don't seem to have any placements. However, without knowing their individual situations, it's hard to know why Cornell students haven't been successful in the past few years. In 2003, the department had some very good placements (Cambridge, amongst others). You should take a look at the placements yourself, and draw your own conclusions. If you are really concerned, you could also contact the school or see if you can speak to a current student. Zavera had a bad visit at Cornell, and seems to have a huge axe to grind with Cornell. (You can click on his name and find his other posts about Cornell). I'd take his opinion on this subject with a grain of salt, personally. He's right that recent Cornell placements have been poor, but his unrelenting trashing of the program seems more personal than grounded in reality.

11-02-2006, 02:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
user_name Within my grasp! Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 455	Compared to UW-Madison (right above) and U Michigan (right below), Cornell's academic placements do look shitty.

11-02-2006, 06:04 AM	#14 (permalink)
OneMoreEcon TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 538	I think I was pretty objective regarding Cornell's placements, since I seriously considered their offer. But really, most of their placements in recent years suck real bad. I'd love to be on the faculty one day, but they don't seem to give a rat's a*s about the grad students. Ehrenberg seemed to be a definite exception and has gotten some really good placements for his students. Oh, and the recent Minnesota placement wasn't in the UMN econ dept... it was another dept (yeah, it's misleading).

11-03-2006, 09:03 AM	#15 (permalink)
eimmot Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10	hey, i have just taken a look with the placement records of LSE, Oxford and cambridge; they have pretty good placement results. Is it reallt truly a less desirable alternative to go UK?

11-03-2006, 09:43 PM	#17 (permalink)
Corneconomics Eager! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 82	Ouch, reading this post hurts a bit. You guys are right, our placements have been less than stellar recently, although its hard to tell, since our website is so shitty (its even worse than our recent placements). On the other hand, if you are interested in development or labor, we've got great people to work with. I'm a bit hesitant to cast the blame publically, but I have my suspisions what the problem is. If I'm right, then I'm pretty sure that things could change quickly; and even if they don't, ambitious students will be able to overcome the... umm... problem.

11-05-2006, 07:02 AM	#20 (permalink)
Econ2006 Within my grasp! Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 208	It's clear that placements at Cornell haven't been that great recently. The explanation I received was that class sizes were quite large several years ago, and that the program admitted students who were clearly less qualified than in the past. If this explanation is true, then it should work itself out over the next few years, since Cornell has become quite a bit more strict regarding admitting students with weaker math/research backgrounds (according to an adcom faculty member). Given the program's placement history prior to the last two or three years, my guess is that top students will still have a shot at quality academic positions. At the same time, the placement list on Cornell's website is definitely incomplete. Individuals who received placements are not listed (like, for example, Kerwin Charles, a labor guy who was placed at Michigan in 1995), and individuals who are listed without placements were actually placed (there are at least three people on the list from 2005 who have no placement listed, but are actually teaching in econ. departments or working for foreign governments). Bottom line is that from what I've seen and heard as a student here, there's very little reason to believe that recent placements at Cornell are the result of indifferent or unsupportive faculty. If anything, the faculty remain constant over time, while student quality varies.

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