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Current phds: how much can we bargain?


dafrk3in

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Is there any possibility of bargaining for better offers?

 

Yes but be careful if some department is very poor (Virginia style). If some department wants you, sometimes they can improve the offer. Caution: whatever you do, don't turn down improved offers! Corollary: ask for a raise only if you'd go when given one.

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Actually... I have a question...

 

What if you get admitted with funding, and you subsequently get an external scholarship? As far as I know, departments adjust their funding when this happens.

 

But, does anybody have any experience with this? Are the adjustments done to leave you as well off, or bad off, as you were before? How do people approach barganing in these cases?

 

I would be very interested to hear something about this.

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I don't know the answer to that in general, but I can offer some anecdotal evidence. My Cornell fellowship offer is for five years, including three years as a TA. They said if I got an NSF, that funding would replace the three years of TA funding, leaving me with more money and no responsibilities whatsoever. The other two schools that have offered me funding made sure to emphasize that they want to know as soon as possible if I land outside funding, but they weren't specific on how the funding offer would be adjusted.
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With regards to the original question about how much leeway there is to negotiate for better financial aid offers:

 

I think the best policy is honesty. As someone mentioned, don't ask for a deal that you aren't prepared to accept. The simplest case is probably if you have not received any funding at the school you'd most like to attend, but do have funded offers at other schools. In that case, I think you should tell the director of grad studies that you would very much like to attend X University, but the funding is a consideration and your second best option, Y University, has offered you a package of ___. But if you do this, you have to be prepared to immediately accept if X University comes close to matching the deal that Y offered.*

 

When you are talking about comparing two different funding packages from different schools, I think there are a couple of things to keep in mind. First, it's kind of tacky to quibble over a few thousand (cost-of-living-adjusted) dollars. You are not going to endear yourself to a school if you give the impression that you're selling your soul (or mind, as the case may be) to the highest bidder and that at the margin, you are indifferent between two departments except for the money. If the funding offers at the schools you are considering are close, then I would go to the school you prefer and NOT ask for a match on the aid.

 

If the aid offers are not close, or if one is fellowship and the other is a stipend for TA/RA work, you can bring up the subject with the grad program director. Your time is valuable and having more time to devote to classes and research does matter. However, try to get a lay of the land (current grad students and probably this board can be good resources). If there really aren't many fellowships and even TA/RA funding is tight, consider yourself lucky to have the offer you hold and don't push it. And don't expect too much sympathy from the grad program director since not everyone is even given the opportunity to work for funding.

 

If both of the offers you are considering are the same type (both fellowship or both TA/RA), but the difference is the amount of the stipend, then I think the only truly appropriate place to ask for more money is if the difference is big enough to cause you to have to take out a substantial loan in one place or the other. Funding packages are pretty standard, and grad students aren't expected to live like kings (except, possibly, at Stanford ;) ) If there are extenuating circumstances that really make the lower stipend a particular hardship, such as having children, let the grad program director know.

 

Something else to keep in mind is the relative rankings of the two schools over which you are debating. If you have an unfunded offer from MIT and a fellowship offer from UMD, MIT may expect you to choose to come simply because of the quality/prestige of the program, regardless of the funding situation. The perspective of the grad program director may be that the difference in the expected value of future earnings is high enough to offset the costs of funding yourself one year. If the schools are very comparable, though, then the grad program director may see that you have reason to be sensitive to funding offers at the margin.

 

If you are trying to get a school to offer or increase funding, I think visiting is very useful. My own opinion is that it is appropriate for you to raise the funding issue with the grad program director or other official person, but NOT with individual professors you meet when you visit. If individual professors ask you questions, certainly answer any you feel comfortable answering. But I wouldn't bring it up -- I'd keep the discussion to academics/the department/other non financial considerations. Express enthusiasm (especially if it's genuine ;) ) and give the impression that you are a good fit and valuable asset for the department. Leaving that impression with faculty you meet will make them want to work with you and want you to attend. They will probably convey that to the person in charge of recruiting and making funding decisions, and enthusiasm from the professors will do a lot more to increase your chances of getting a better offer than having left the impression that you are only interested in money. The best situation you can hope for is that faculty members you meet are impressed by you enough that they approach the grad program director to say, "I really hope Johnny comes -- he seems like a really sharp guy and I'd love to work with him."

 

I don't think it hurts to talk to current students about funding, so long as you are sensitive/not obnoxious. Everyone knows it's a big concern, and grad students can give you their impressions of the current funding situation and how managable the package you've been offered will make life.

 

*I was not initially offered funding at U-Mich. I did exactly what I've described here (had an honest conversation with the grad director about my preferences and options, and had great discussions with faculty members that were NOT about funding). I was offered quite generous funding shortly after my campus visit, and immediately and happily accepted the offer. I know that this has happened with other students, as well.

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I also think that the "effect of our bargaining" depends largely on the financial condition of the department. Will department give out funding to students who look promising on campus day if the department already exceed its estimated funding budget?
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Glad to help :) I hope funding works out for everyone.

 

I also think that the "effect of our bargaining" depends largely on the financial condition of the department. Will department give out funding to students who look promising on campus day if the department already exceed its estimated funding budget?

You're right -- if a department doesn't have any money to give, then there's not much you or they can do. Sometimes, the department is able to find more money after initial offers are made, but more often, funding gets shifted around as some people turn down offers. I don't think schools hold much money in reserve, though it would be an interesting strategy to hold some back until after visits are completed. Risky for both principal and agent...

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Glad to help :) I hope funding works out for everyone.

 

Thanks a lot, asquare. I have another question here. Do you think that the department actually has ranked people waitlisted for funding by the time it send out the letters? If so, how much do you think that the "performance" on campus day will affect the pre-existing ranking?

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lfl, I don't know how the waitlisting for funding works. Some departments have formal waitlists for funding and others don't, but I don't know whether or not they have unofficial/internal rankings. I don't want to give the impression that your campus visit is an audition or something you should be nervous about! It's first and foremost a chance to get information about the school and to find out whether it is a place where you want to start your career and spend five years of your life.

 

I don't know much what happens during your visit matters. Given the lack of transparency, I think honesty, good manners, and careful information gathering are the best you can do.

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lfl, I don't know how the waitlisting for funding works. Some departments have formal waitlists for funding and others don't, but I don't know whether or not they have unofficial/internal rankings. I don't want to give the impression that your campus visit is an audition or something you should be nervous about! It's first and foremost a chance to get information about the school and to find out whether it is a place where you want to start your career and spend five years of your life.

 

I don't know much what happens during your visit matters. Given the lack of transparency, I think honesty, good manners, and careful information gathering are the best you can do.

 

thanks very much!:)

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I have a question. I would like to bargain for a better offer in a top-10 university I have been admitted. I think that I might have some bargaining power since I have being accepted with full-funding in two additional top-10 programs. The problem is that I'm an international student so its kind of difficult for me to attend the fly-out. Do you think there is a possibility to bargain without attending the fly-out? Trough e-mail or maybe phone? Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks.
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  • 1 year later...
Here's more information about funding that may be relevant to people this admissions cycle. Good luck, everyone :)

 

You have great timing, asquare. I now face this situation myself (Caltech with great funding, Northwestern waitlisted for funding). Northwestern's letter does say I should let them know if I have other funded offers.

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It seems to me that this kind of bargaining will be tougher this year. I know of one program where all offers this year have to be individually approved by someone in the administration, so presumably adjusting an offer will require going back for approval--even assuming there's any money left to allocate.
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  • 3 weeks later...

I wanted to revisit this thread again, half because of asquare's great advice above and half because I'm interested to see what people think of my situation:

 

I'm considering two offers:

UCSB with a five-year, 16.6k TAship + health insurance + in-state tuition waiver (i.e. I'd pay the 15k out-of-state tuition for year 1)

&

NC State with an up to six-year, 17k RAship + full tuition + health insurance + 5k fellowship for the first year.

 

UCSB is a slightly better fit for me academically and the location is much better. Cost of living is much higher. Ranking-wise they're about the same. Ultimately, UCSB is my top choice, but the "real" money at NCSU is quite appealing. The DGS at UCSB mentioned there *might* be an opportunity to increase my stipend to cover out-of-state tuition. I'm visiting UCSB this week--any thoughts on a plan of attack (taking buckykatt's information into account)?

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I wanted to revisit this thread again, half because of asquare's great advice above and half because I'm interested to see what people think of my situation:

 

I'm considering two offers:

UCSB with a five-year, 16.6k TAship + health insurance + in-state tuition waiver (i.e. I'd pay the 15k out-of-state tuition for year 1)

&

NC State with an up to six-year, 17k RAship + full tuition + health insurance + 5k fellowship for the first year.

 

UCSB is a slightly better fit for me academically and the location is much better. Cost of living is much higher. Ranking-wise they're about the same. Ultimately, UCSB is my top choice, but the "real" money at NCSU is quite appealing. The DGS at UCSB mentioned there *might* be an opportunity to increase my stipend to cover out-of-state tuition. I'm visiting UCSB this week--any thoughts on a plan of attack (taking buckykatt's information into account)?

 

I think you've stated it well here. When you visit UCSB, talk to the DGS or whomever has control over such things, and lay out where you stand. I think they'll appreciate the honesty, and ideally they can be honest with you and tell you what they can do as well. If you make it clear that you would attend if they could cover all/most of tuition, that could help them arrange their priorities to make it happen.

 

The UCs aren't exactly rolling in money at this point so it may not be likely, but I don't think that stating your situation in that way can hurt.

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CJW10,

 

I didn't realize your $$ at UCSB didn't cover out of state tuition...Have you crunched some numbers to see how far that puts you in the hole in year 1 on tuition and how much extra $$ you would need to cover living expenses there? If I assume after year 1 you qualify for residency, that just leaves the cost of living gap... From a rough guess, that puts you about 30-35K in the hole (and assumes you got interest deferred loans).

 

That's really not too bad if you think your placements will be substantially better upon PhD. Again, assuming you have no debt from undergrad.

 

That being said, if you are feeling risk averse and there is a small chance you might not graduate (sorry, have to go there), not taking on any debt at NC State may be worth it...plus you graduate unencumbered.

 

Hhhmmm... I would def. talk to UCSB and see if there is a chance of getting that out-of-state tuition waiver...

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From what I've heard from current grad students, the TA stipend at UCSB is manageable if you're frugal. So, I can live cheaply, and only take out a loan for tuition (around 15k) and then become a CA resident for year two.

 

Hopefully:luck2:, UCSB will come up with an out-of-state tuition waiver. If so, I will probably attend. If not, I'm going to pull my hair out until Apr 15th and most probably break out the dartboard...

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