Agricultural/Applied Programs

[Robbo]

Hi all, I am new to posting on this forum, however I have been reading posts for quite some time now.

 

I am currently a grad student in Applied Economics, getting my MS from a small school in Minnesota.

 

I am pretty sure that I want to go the Applied/Agricultural route as far as a PhD goes, because it does not seem as difficult, and it also does not seem as competitive. Plus I do not think my math skills will get me through the trad. econ program, but weirder things have happened I suppose. The thought of Real Analysis sort of frightens me, and the ag programs don't seem to factor it in.

 

I'm sure that there have been posts about this before, but any information about ag/applied programs would be great.

 

I'm looking into UC-Berkeley, UC-Davis, Oregon State, U of Minn, and U of Wisc as my top 5 choices of Ag/Applied Econ.

 

I'm worried about my Q score in the GRE. It is 680. I am wondering if it is not weighted as highly in ag programs.

So it goes 530/680/4.5 on the GRE.

and 3.4 Undergrad GPA (major in Statistics)

and 3.6 GPA after one semester in my masters program, however it should be converging towards 4.0 by the end.

Have taken Calc I, II, Linear Algebra, Discrete Math I and lots of statistics

 

So I guess any advice would be nice.

 

Thanks much

[nevena]

hey.I would say to go again for GRE and score at least 750 on the math section.even though a lot of factors influence the adcom decision,I guess you would not like to be cut off because of low math on GRE especially.

[Robbo]

Yeah I've definitely been thinking about that.

I just looked at the extensive statistics at the U of Minn regarding their Admissions of Applied Econ students.

Looks like 20% of admits scored 600-699 on the GRE Quant. That's at least one 'uppers' regarding this.

What happens if you take it again, and you score WORSE? heh...I wouldn't want that.

[nevena]

well,if you score worse,you just don't send your results anywhere.when you require from ETS to send your scores,you have to notify them you want the first result to be sent.I think this is how it works.but don't think so negatively.a friend of mine scored 760 the first time and then went as high as 770(but her verbal dropped:hmm: ).just try to do your best:tup:

[Robbo]

Thanks for the advice. It is much appreciated. I just found an article with data about admissions to PhD programs in Ag Econ.

The mean Q score is 729 for top 10 programs (all 4 except oregon state)

and 678 for not top 10 schools.

So i'd fall somewhere in the middle on this, which is pretty good news to me. I always read about trad. econ programs, but not ag/applied, so this is some positive news for me.

[apropos]

The students in a good ARE program have to take the first year PhD-level theory and econometrics courses that are taught at the Economics department at the same school. Therefore, you are wrong to assume that the math prerequisites of ARE programs are somehow lighter than in the normal Economics PhD program.

 

It is likely that getting into ARE program at university X is easier than getting into Economics PhD program at the same school, but the difference is not big. In fact, someone on this board made it into normal econ PhD programs at UC Davis, UC Irvine, and Texas-Austin, but didn't make it into UCB and Davis ARE. I would expect Wisconsin to be about as tough as say UC Davis one to get into. I noticed that some people on this board were cross-shopping between Berkeley ARE and solidly Top-20 Economics PhD programs. You get the idea what sort of competition you can expect there. I am just saying this to persuade you not to treat ARE programs as some sort of backdoor into Econ PhD world. Go for ARE PhD only if it interests you, not because you need a PhD.

 

Next, if you want to get into a respectable program, you should pull your quantitative GRE above 750. In fact, there is no reason for someone with your level of math preparation not to get 800 or very close to that. If you submit a GRE score below 700, it will certainly make your application look bad, and the adcoms might question the training you got at the school that you're attending. Get the GRE study aids and start practicing.

 

In terms of math preparation, you seem to be ok with respect to statistics and calculus, but the adcoms also want to know whether you're good at taking abstract math courses (reading and writing proofs, etc). Therefore, taking real analysis 1 and getting a good grade will certainly boost your chances of getting into the PhD programs that you listed.

 

Finally, you should be aware of the fact that it seems like coming from a small regional school as opposed to a known research university or an elite liberal arts college might hurt your chances for admission. Someone with your profile and a good GRE score coming from UCLA perhaps would make it into UC Davis or UMN agricultural/applied economics programs, but you will be facing an uphill battle there. Therefore, you should certainly do the best job that you can do in parts of your application that are still under your control (that is: GRE, GPA, letters, and math courses).

 

Of course, I am not 100% sure of the things that I saying but I have been reading this board for a few months now, and base my opinions on other people's experiences.

[kanishka]

have you considered maryland?

[zappa24]

Also, I think most ARE programs are smaller than Econ programs. So, add in the cross-applying, and ARE's are pretty competitive (I would suspect that ARE end up losing quite a few students to Econ programs when a student get accepted to a combination of both.)

 

At Ohio State, AED (their version of ARE) requires the same Micro sequence as the Econ program. It then requires taking a second series of courses outside AED which is usually fulfilled by taking the Macro program. In the end, you end up getting what is essentially an Econ Master's (and if you want, you can transfer into Econ for a semester, get the Master's, then transfer back to AED to finish the doctorate.) So, in most places, you will not be able to escape the Econ Master's series.

[FES]

I got acceptances from Cornell AEM, Wisconsin AAE, Ohio AED and Michigan State Agr Econ. My GRE score are Q790. I have Master of Econ from the most famous university in my country. Surprisingly, I can get into these programs with only CAL1 and CAL2, no analysis at all. It seems that Agr Econ programs require much less of Math background than Econ program.Now I am considering about to which school I should go in this fall. Do you guys have any idea? Thank you in advance for your kind suggestion.

[peterB]

You can look at my profile. I applied to Berkeley ARE, and maybe you can learn something from my rejection there. I had a pretty bad overall GPA, but in my final two years (including continuing ed classes) it was close to 4.0. It's a tough program to get into especially because it is so small. As far as math preperation, I think you can assume it has to be pretty close to what a top-20 econ program would expect. So I would take analysis if you can, and definitely boost your Math gre above 750 as people say, but honestly if you have any weak points in your app you might need above 780. Apply everywhere you're interested in attending, but have your expectations in the right place: it's hard to get into.

[kkitkat]

I'm looking into UC-Berkeley, UC-Davis, Oregon State, U of Minn, and U of Wisc as my top 5 choices of Ag/Applied Econ.

 

I'm worried about my Q score in the GRE. It is 680. I am wondering if it is not weighted as highly in ag programs.

So it goes 530/680/4.5 on the GRE.

and 3.4 Undergrad GPA (major in Statistics)

and 3.6 GPA after one semester in my masters program, however it should be converging towards 4.0 by the end.

Have taken Calc I, II, Linear Algebra, Discrete Math I and lots of statistics

 

So I guess any advice would be nice.

 

Thanks much

i think you should definitely rewrite the gre and get the quantitative part to at least 750. i was applying to ag economics programs this year with profile similar to yours except that my gre scores were higher (750/550) and got rejected by U of Wisc, U of Maryland, Iowa State and U of Wyoming (these are top 14 schools for ag econ). Got unfunded admissions from NC State and Oregon State. my major regret is not taking more math (such as multivariate calculus, real analysis) when i had the chance.

[wobo82]

Like others, I think 680 is low even for ag econ programs. I applied to 3 ag programs: Berkeley, Maryland and Minnesota. The latter two accepted me with funding but Berkeley said no thanks. I would rate Berkeley ARE as a top 20ish straight econ.

 

I agree with previous posters who say that ag econ probably requires as much math as straight econ. First years in the top ag programs (Berkeley, UMD, Davis) take exactly the same micro theory sequence as regular econ students. But I know that at UMN for example, students can take either the regular micro sequence or a less proof intensive version.

 

The critical difference between ag econ and straight econ is there is no macro in the former's core curriculum.

[mau19]

I just found an article with data about admissions to PhD programs in Ag Econ.

The mean Q score is 729 for top 10 programs (all 4 except oregon state)

and 678 for not top 10 schools.

So i'd fall somewhere in the middle on this, which is pretty good news to me.

 

I don't mean to ruin your perspectives, but it is inadequate to look at the mean score of applicants. Instead the statistic you should be looking at is the mean score of accepted applicants.

 

Unfortunately these statistics are quite higher from the scores you found in the article, especially for the schools you are looking at. For example, AAE Wisconsin publishes the mean scores for their accepted incoming applicants (Q763). Accepted applicants with funding averaged Q780.

 

http://www.aae.wisc.edu/students/prospective/grad/admissions/

 

Unfortunately, I think that unless you get at least Q750, as others have said, your chances are pretty low. In my opinion, that is the main thing you should work on. And taking real analysis might not be required, but taking it and scoring well on it will certainly help you make up for other deficiencies in your application.

 

Good Luck!

[Robbo]

In response to mau19.

The data I was looking at was shown for admitted applicants.

Now, being that Wisc is a top 10 Ag school, the mean admitted pool of applicants will have a higher GRE Q score. I totally believe all of you however, because as current PhD students (i'm assuming most of you are), you would know quite a bit about this. So i'm considering re-taking the GRE this summer. However, for me it is not imperitive I get into a top 10 program. I just want to get into a program, and after completing it, become a professor at 'some' university. It just is the perfect profession for me. I'm not concerned about the rankings as much as most, because the competition is frankly very high.

 

http://agecon.unl.edu/mark/Papers/Gradstudent_rept179.pdf

 

That link should get you to the paper that I was reading. If i'm not mistake (I might be). The data provided is for a mean of admitted applicants. For the "non top 10" schools, it seems to be a bright spot for me. However, I may be wrong.

Happy reading.

[kanishka]

yup, in maryland AREC there is no macro.

 

in a way, it makes sense.

[ivar1951]

Whar are the job prospects for ARE PhDs from top 10 US universities? Do international institutions like World Bank, UNO, IMF, ADB, etc, look for such people?

[apropos]

Top ARE programs like UCB, UC Davis, Iowa State, and and a few others regularly place people to work in the academia, but I suppose they have also numerous placements into organizations that you listed. Here is UC Davis's placement list for example

http://www.agecon.ucdavis.edu/graduateprogram/ourgradstuds/grads_placed.php?gtype=PhD

(It's out of date as I know they placed someone into UMN Ap.Econ. last year).

[apropos]

In response to mau19.

The data I was looking at was shown for admitted applicants.

Now, being that Wisc is a top 10 Ag school, the mean admitted pool of applicants will have a higher GRE Q score. I totally believe all of you however, because as current PhD students (i'm assuming most of you are), you would know quite a bit about this. So i'm considering re-taking the GRE this summer. However, for me it is not imperitive I get into a top 10 program. I just want to get into a program, and after completing it, become a professor at 'some' university. It just is the perfect profession for me. I'm not concerned about the rankings as much as most, because the competition is frankly very high.

 

http://agecon.unl.edu/mark/Papers/Gradstudent_rept179.pdf

 

That link should get you to the paper that I was reading. If i'm not mistake (I might be). The data provided is for a mean of admitted applicants. For the "non top 10" schools, it seems to be a bright spot for me. However, I may be wrong.

Happy reading.

 

While getting into the top five or so ARE-type programs might be difficult and random (say Berkeley, Davis, Maryland, or Wisconsin), I think that with a good GRE score you may reasonably expect to have a decent shot at the other programs. I'd apply to a wide range of departments (most definitely say to Minnesota, Purdue, MSU, Iowa State, NC State, etc) Note that, once again, some of them might require you to take the PhD-level microeconomics sequence. While knowing real analysis is not mandatory for taking it, some exposure to abstract mathematics will certainly help to be able to read and understand that material well. Don't be discouraged by that. Many people who go into straight econ programs also plan to pursue applied/empirical concentrations and do not always intend to become theorists. Yet they also have to take this first year theory course.

[Robbo]

Thanks everyone, you've all been very helpful.

I do believe I will re-take the GRE this summer, and actually study for the Q portion this time. Since last time, for some reason I did not, and focused mainly on the V section. This was, of course, before when I knew 800's were commonplace on that section.

I also like the sound of no macro. I notice Davis does not require it, as well as a few others. I like micro better.

How would good grades in MS level micro look? I have the second best grade in the class right now, and it interests me very much. I also am performing well in my MS level Econometrics class.

A little more info about me:

Also I will obtain vital research background next year, when I do my thesis (have not picked a topic yet). Also, I got an appointment as a GA this year, and have picked up research experience through that as well. I also completed a senior project in statistics last year, where we collected data, and formulated a model based on police traffic stops, and racial discrimination within.

I believe I will be re-appointed again next year as a GA. Does experience as a GA help in landing further GA positions? and perhaps up your chance of being admitted into programs?

 

Thanks much