Applying as an American or an International Student

[econphilomath]

OK I need some advice on my applications I'm filling out. My situation is that I have dual nationality as an American and also of another small developing country. I have been living outside the US for a long time now and thus have done my undergraduate and masters in economics outside the US a the best university of my country. Hence, all my LORs and grades, papers, etc come from here.

When I want to fill out the online application (specifically at princeton) it asks if you are an international student or an American. Then the application adapts accordingly which limits some of the info I want to give.

My question to all wise TMers is what do you think I should do: apply as an international (then put birthplace Redwood City Calif., no TOFEL and no visa) or as an American with weird background information, address and no US prizes, scholarships, IVY league uni, etc which normally signal excellence in the US?
Does it matter at all for my chances of getting in?


Bonus question: if the answer is international, then do I have to take the TOFEL???


Thanks for the help.

[SquareSquare]

Bonus question: if the answer is international, then do I have to take the TOFEL???

If you are a native speaker or your education took place at a English-speaking uni, then NO. If you have other objective reasons for not wanting to take it, you can probably get that requirement waived by speaking to the grad. admin. If none of the above apply, you have to take it.

I'd like my bonus in unmarked small denomination banknotes, please.

[econphilomath]

I am a native english speaker but my uni was not english speaking. I can take the test and probably get a perfect score (or near perfect) but if I apply as an american there is no place to add the score on the application!

I'll give you your bonus in present value at fly-outs!

[SquareSquare]

but if I apply as an american there is no place to add the score on the application!

Some people (asquare?) might disagree with me, but it seems to me that adcoms don't care much about TOEFL/IELTS scores. As long as you can communicate in English it's fine, jst dnt wrt ur sop lk zs.

The bigger issue for you is how to not get filtered out at the initial round if you apply as an American... but I don't know about that.

I'll give you your bonus in present value at fly-outs!

Now, where did I put those lecture notes on commitment mechanisms...

[econphilomath]

Originally Posted by SquareSquare

The bigger issue for you is how to not get filtered out at the initial round if you apply as an American... but I don't know about that.

Thats the thing. As an international I think I will stand out with a good profile which in the past has gotten people from here into great programs. (less risk)
I just feel a little dishonest when filling out the forms. I mean I spent the first 15 years of my life in the US!
Then again maybe as an american with a masters, teaching exp and ranked at the top of my undergrad and grad studies, maybe it might even stand out more since most americans go straight from their undergrad. (or not!)

Originally Posted by SquareSquare

Now, where did I put those lecture notes on commitment mechanisms...

If we end up going to flyouts together (condition which is in the contract) it might well be optimal for me to pay out due to the repeated game set up (next four years doing workouts!) I wouldn´t want to ruin my reputation before we even start math camp!!

[econphilomath]

Come on people, its not that lame a question. Deep down you have to have wondered if there is some sort of quotas for Americans or internationals at phd programs? I mean there are roughly half and half right? But what about the size of the supply of students and their quality? Do you really think that they just end up at that amount without being evaluated under a different lens? In which group is the quota more restrictive.... and if you could change status what would you do?

Thats what I want to know now and what it would be interesting to debate since there are many internationals and Americans on this site.

[asquare]

Originally Posted by SquareSquare

Some people (asquare?) might disagree with me, but it seems to me that adcoms don't care much about TOEFL/IELTS scores.

Nope, I don't disagree (and don't think I've ever said that the TOEFL was a big deal).

The difference between the TOEFL and the GRE verbal is that the former is seen as only a test of language familiarity, while the latter is sometimes, by some people, interpreted as conveying information about ability beyond just vocabulary and sentence structure.

There could still be a small marginal benefit to a perfect TOEFL score, especially at public schools where graduate students are required to meet certain English language standards to serve as TAs. In the OP's case, though, I think you should either ask the department how they recommend dual citizens apply, or just explain briefly in your SOP that you are a dual citizen who was born in the US but primarily raised and educated abroad.