Current PhD students - need info on your dept general exams policy

[citizeness]

I am a PhD student in a top ten-ish program. I also happen to be the head of the student representative organization for the department. Recently the department decided to change its policy on what we call the comps, what you may call the prelims, the quals, or the general exams.

Currently, students take the comps in August before the 2nd year begins. We have one exam in micro, one in macro. If students fail one or both, they can retake in January. We have a small program and a relatively small number of students fail. So sometimes the pool of retakers for each test is small. The professors claim they cannot distinguish a pass from a fail when the pool is so small. It also seems clear they wish to stop creating two complete tests each year.

They proposed changing to one administration per year in early June after the first year. The consensus in the department is that this isn't a big problem for first year students, but could present some problems for retakers, who would then retake in June following their 2nd year. Certainly, it prolongs uncertainty, since they won't know til the end of June whether they are continuing on into the 3rd year. We think it would affect the job search for students who will leave with the Masters, but aren't too sure about how seasonal or time-sensitive that search is.

I am in charge of writing up a letter expressing "student response" to this change, and we are largely against it, or at least feel that strategically we should argue against it on the off-chance we can change their mind.

We hope that part of our argument is that other programs offer retakes that suit students' needs better.

So the questions at hand are:
1) how does your dept handle comps, and in particular retakes?
2) how successful would a Masters-level job search begun in June be compared to a Masters-level job search begun in February?
3) does anyone have any advice about negotiating with the department about core requirements?

It would be really helpful to know your affiliation. I need to say "Fantastic Program x gives a January retake."

Thanks in advance. Unfortunately I have to write to the department head by the end of the month, which is this weekend. Any help would be great.

Best,
Citizeness

[Karina 07]

Erm. We don't have comps (big grin), we only have field exams at the end of second year, in August (and have to pass the courses, of course). I'm not sure when re-takes for those are, but I would agree with you that it should help Master's students to hear sooner. Having completed a master's program before starting on the Ph.D., I found that most of my classmates did find great jobs even when they started the job search directly upon graduation, pretty darned quickly, but even so results were probably marginally better if you started to look sooner; the main advantage with time would probably just be peace of mind, though. Actually, I recall that for a bunch of programs, recruiting schedules start in September or in the fall, at any rate, which doesn't really help with your options. But if you want to press for hearing earlier, go for it! Life is short, so I can see other advantages.

[Antichron]

At UCLA, the first round of comps is at the end of June. If students fail, they are given another chance in September. Anyone who does not pass the second round needs to take a course in economic history (presumably in the Fall quarter) before he/she is granted a master's degree. This essentially means that degree wouldn't be granted until January anyway.

I am not familiar with anyone who has received an MA at MIT, and we don't have first year exams (we have second year "generals," which are pretty much just a formality - I don't know of anyone who has had to retake them), so I don't think MIT is a useful example.

Regarding negotiating with the department, I would proceed as carefully as possible. Presumably, a lot of thought went into their decision. I am not sure that "department X does 'this'" is necessarily a compelling argument. The MA job search argument is, however.

[TruDog]

Wisconsin's policy is as follows:

Doctoral Course of Study

[Zoethor2]

At UMD we take comps in August, and can retake either micro, macro or both if we fail, in January. Everyone seems to feel that taking them in August is rather nice, as it gives a great deal longer to study for them. Apparently until just recently, if you failed either comp, you then had to retake, and pass, both in January. The graduate student association successfully negotiated the current system, I think within the past three years. So, at least there is some evidence that student opinion can influence policy on these exams. Best of luck.

[asquare]

The University of Michigan changed its policy this past year. The OLD policy allowed up to 4 attempts at each exam. The first attempt at micro was in May after first year. The second attempt was September of 2nd year. The 3rd attempt was May after 2nd year. The fourth attempt (granted only to those who had already passed macro) was September of 3rd year. Also, under the OLD system, we didn't start macro until the second semester of our first years. Then, our first attempt at the macro prelim was January of second year. The second attempt was September of 3rd year; third attempt was January of 3rd year, and fourth attempt (for those who passed micro already) was September of 4th year.

Under the new system, prelims are only given once a year. First year students start macro first semester, and are done with the core at the end of first year. The first attempt at both micro and macro comes in September of second year. The second attempt at both exams (and the first attempt at field exams) is September of third year. There has been a lot of dissatisfaction with this new system. Exams in September (instead of May) mean that much of the summer is wasted studying, when it could have been spent on research. (Our "summer" is 4 months long, so to be fair, we actually did research for 3 months and then turned to studying, though I think those retaking macro may have spent more time studying). Also, the system was supposed to have people finish exams earlier than before, but this is only true for those who pass everything on the first attempt; students who have to retake exams actually now have a longer time until being done with them since the exams are now given once, not twice a year. And it is now more likely that the professors who write your "second chance" exam will not be the same professors who taught the class when you took it.

Other details: we don't have a metrics prelim. If you fail one exam, you only have to retake that exam. Exams are graded on a 4-point scale: pass with distinction, pass, marginal fail, fail. If you pass one exam with distinction and marginally fail the other, you are automatically bumped up to passing on both.

[oavdn17]

New Mexico just changed its policy this past year. Before you would take core exams one at a time (1st try: Micro in Aug and Macro in Jan) with up to three tries. Now we have to take them in the same week in Aug with only two tries, and we also have a metrics exam with the 1st try after our third semester.

[jhall]

At Chicago the core exams are in July, about 3 weeks after the last quarter ends. We take an exam in metrics, macro and micro. They are only offered once a year. You only get two tries. The bad news at Chicago is that they take a while to get the results to you, it took them till September 12th this year.

[Guest Who]

UCSD: four attempts at each of micro and macro. June (1st year), Sept., June (2nd year), Sept. Students typically place out of the metrics prelim.

Our quals are generally reasonable though they vary markedly from exam to exam (hence the four attempts). Our impression is that the faculty feels they are a semi-antiquated formality.

For what it's worth, the department also offers a masters exam; it is impossible.

[Nalfien]

Yale: take both micro and macro a week after finals in may, if one fails one or both they retake what they failed the first week of september. if they fail again they retain their fellowship for one more semester to finish up their masters and then they must be on their way...