How are the applications looked/analyzed in the first round by the adcoms? any idea?

[Bayern]

I am guessing the adcoms first throw out some of the applications ( I have top-30 schools in my mind) based on the GRE and GPA, and won't take the time to really look at the LORs, resume and SOP in the first round. Do you think this is true? This kind of means that the first impression of transcript has to be good, and bad news for the people who are relying on their LORs a lot. Anyone has any idea?

[doubtful]

I would add another distinction, from US and not from US.

[TruDog]

I would add another distinction, from US and not from US.

 

I would disagree.

[econdreamer]

Ok, then, what happen to the non-US applications in the first round?

[TruDog]

The same thing that happens to US applications. Those who meet the GRE/GPA/course qualifications/etc. will have their applications kept for further review. The only difference for foreign applicants is that a certain level of English proficiency is required, which is typically set by the university instead of the program.

 

There have been many discussions in this forum in the past about whether US or foreign students have an advantage in applications. Most of the data from various schools (Minnesota's is really accessible) show that the admit rate is about the same for students from different countries.

[doubtful]

Ok, then, what happen to the non-US applications in the first round?

 

according to what I know.. they consider the place you come from.. if it is ecole politechnique or bejiing university, just to make two examples, they are able to compare you with past successful students. People from unknown university even if they present perfect scores have less chances... and sometime a perfect GRE is seen as suspicious as other people said before.

 

I have seen some departments (business schools) where all the international students had already achieved a master in the US... I don't think that is casual

[SunnyDutt]

lol and now this might be the token question on most (maybe not all people's minds) but atleast for GPA would anyone know the 1st, 2nd round (or even 3rd round) cutoffs for say top 5,15,30 schools? It's probably a varying random variable itself because if everyone knew it, we wouldnt care too much! Hope to hear your feed back on this.

[Golden Rule]

I would add another distinction, from US and not from US.

I would disagree.

I would agree. I actually found out that at one school I applied to, my application was initially placed in the "international pile" by mistake.

 

Of course, this doesn't mean such a thing exists at all schools.

[Mr.Keen]

I heard from a friend who was fortunate to know a professor from a top 10 school, who told him how the process was last year (presumably it is the same every year). Here is what he told me: first, the administrative assistants, that is, the secretaries, separate the profiles with the highest quantitative GRE scores (790 and above at this particular school). Then if you are international you have to meet the school's minumum TOEFL requirement. After they do this, they would still look at some of the other applications but with less seriousness. After that, LORs are the first thing they look at, if they know the person writing or they know about him/her and the letter is strong your chances increase significantly. Then they look at your academic record: transcripts, honors, awards. If your research sample is exceptional, then it is a very important factor, much more so than what courses you have taken and your grades. Now, if one of your recommenders REALLY knows somebody in the adcom, a call, contrary to what econphd tells us, can really make the difference, especially when it comes to funding.

[C152dude]

Now, if one of your recommenders REALLY knows somebody in the adcom, a call, contrary to what econphd tells us, can really make the difference, especially when it comes to funding.

 

Mr. Keen -

[clap]

... I hope you are right. Maybe this will offset my lackluster GPA's. Thanks for the note.

[IntEcon80]

I am not an expert but GPA is the single most important factor at top schools. Certainly all those who have GPA

[Mr.Keen]

I am not an expert but GPA is the single most important factor at top schools. Certainly all those who have GPA

 

Of course, I might be wrong, this is just what I was told. However, I would assume that it is a pretty reliable source. Of course, and I intended to make that obvious, you can't get in without the minimum prerequisites in math and econ. And I would think that, in general, a perfect GRE score does not substitute for a stellar academic record.

 

That said, the idea that GPA is less important than really strong letters from people known by the adcom and an outstanding research paper is appealing in the sense that transcripts are without a doubt the most heterogeneous component of the applicant pool, which makes them very difficult to compare. A great paper is a great paper, regardless of where it was written. And if somebody I know and respect, and who is not going to jeopardize his/her reputation by exagerating his recommendation, tells me that so-and-so is top 10 material, that information is more reliable than a transcript that might be inflated.

[Bayern]

The experience of Mr.Keen is really helpful, and I was looking forward to something like that. It is difficult for the students to analyze by themselves how the admission process works, so a conversation with someone involved in admission process is really helpful, but unfortunately very few people in the forum gets that opportunity.

[Antonio]

I have my opinion.....but I do not know if it is correct.

 

On average, each year a top 10 department receives 550-600 applications and they make 30-35 offers (I repeat: ON AVERAGE).

 

 

Of these, I think that 200-250 are throw away as soon as possible (people that tries but without any solid chance); and some like 10-15 applicants are very stellar and they are accepted as soon as possible (I mean, people very stellar with perfect GRE and GPA, letters from very wellknown professors like TIROLE, ACEMOGLU or ALESINA).

 

The most interesting is what appens to the other 450 applicants...their applications are viewed and reviewed many times and at the end 20 of them will receive offers (but this does not mean that they will receive funds).

 

Do you agree??

[Antichron]

On average, each year a top 10 department receives 550-600 applications and they make 30-35 offers (I repeat: ON AVERAGE).

 

I'd say that your first number is pretty correct. As for the second number, I can provide some specific (or at least approximate - my memory is fading. :doh:) figures. My year, MIT accepted around 40, Harvard accepted around 36, and Stanford, Princeton, and Yale each accepted 55. I suspect the other top ten schools each accepted over 50 as well. Last year, I heard Stanford accepted 70 applicants to compensate for a low yield the prior year.

[Karina 07]

I'd say that your first number is pretty correct. As for the second number, I can provide some specific (or at least approximate - my memory is fading. :doh:) figures. My year, MIT accepted around 40, Harvard accepted around 36, and Stanford, Princeton, and Yale each accepted 55. I suspect the other top ten schools each accepted over 50 as well. Last year, I heard Stanford accepted 70 applicants to compensate for a low yield the prior year.

 

Berkeley accepted 63 this past year, if memory serves. Something in the 60s, anyway.

[taka_sukunami]

Berkeley accepted 63 this past year, if memory serves. Something in the 60s, anyway.

 

Any idea as to what the distribution might be like, i.e.

number of US-educated students: American / International; and

number of admits educated overseas: Europe / Canada / Latin America / Asia?

[buckykatt]

I don't know about Berkeley specifically, but the proportion of U.S. citizens is typically about 33%, and even a little lower at top programs. Looking at the undergrad institution, it's about 38% US-educated.

[Bayern]

Does the dept taking in mean more students mean that more people are going to be weeded out... or is it just that the department went on recruiting and can now support a larger student body?

[taka_sukunami]

I don't know about Berkeley specifically, but the proportion of U.S. citizens is typically about 33%, and even a little lower at top programs. Looking at the undergrad institution, it's about 38% US-educated.

 

Thanks bucky - mind sharing where you got these numbers from?

[PNP]

Any idea as to what the distribution might be like, i.e.

number of US-educated students: American / International; and

number of admits educated overseas: Europe / Canada / Latin America / Asia?

 

For Yale (based on undergrad institution only):

Admits:

US: 30

Europe:16

Canada:4

South America:6

Asia:5

Australasia:4

Waitlists:

US: 8

Europe: 2

South America:1

Australasia:1

 

For Princeton (based on undergrad institution only):

Admits:

US: 29

Europe:7

Canada:3

South America:10

Asia:8

Australasia:2

[buckykatt]

Thanks bucky - mind sharing where you got these numbers from?

 

No problem. See Stock et al., "Attrition in Economics Ph.D. Programs" in AEA Papers in Proceedings for May 2006. I think I posted a link to the paper somewhere on TM; if not, shouldn't be hard to find. It's the best paper I've seen looking at a recent sample of econ Ph.D. students.

[octavio]

I think this is the one:

 

http://www.aeaweb.org/joe/articles/2006/attrition.pdf

[taka_sukunami]

For Yale (based on undergrad institution only):

Admits:

US: 30

Europe:16

Canada:4

South America:6

Asia:5

Australasia:4

Waitlists:

US: 8

Europe: 2

South America:1

Australasia:1

 

For Princeton (based on undergrad institution only):

Admits:

US: 29

Europe:7

Canada:3

South America:10

Asia:8

Australasia:2

 

Thanks, P=NP! Good stuff.

 

One question though, why would they base it on undergrad institution only? Is it because they want to make it comparable for all applicants/just the way the data is collected? Because it seems to me it would make more sense to base it on the institution where the applicant most recently graduated from, as most internationals would have masters (grad) degrees....

[PNP]

Thanks, P=NP! Good stuff.

 

One question though, why would they base it on undergrad institution only? Is it because they want to make it comparable for all applicants/just the way the data is collected? Because it seems to me it would make more sense to base it on the institution where the applicant most recently graduated from, as most internationals would have masters (grad) degrees....

 

I agree. I think this was just the list given to students - the professors might have a more detailed list, I'm guessing.