MA in Economics Ranking: the best preparation for top PhDs

[divikid]

After searching almost all MA programs in Economics, I can't figure out which are the best stepping-stones for a top 10 PhD. I'd like to collect your opinion on this to set some kind of ranking, taking into account the placement record of each program. I think it would be very helpful for all here on these forums. Once I have enough contributions, I'll consolidate in one final ranking.

I'd suggest we rank the following programs (suggestions and additions are welcome):

 

( ) LSE

( ) UCL

( ) Warwick

( ) Oxford

( ) Cambridge

( ) Pompeu Fabra

( ) Tufts

( ) Duke

( ) NYU

( ) Toronto

( ) UBC

( ) Queens

[fp3690]

Lose Tufts and add CEMFI, Bocconi.

[zsla]

My 2cents:

 

(4) LSE

(1) UCL

(8) Warwick

(5) Oxford

(7) Cambridge

(3) Pompeu Fabra

(?) Tufts

(?) Duke

(?) NYU

(6) Toronto

(2) UBC

(9) Queens

[rcwlhk]

bump -- would be interested in hearing more comments from the board :)

[RaaR]

This is actually a good question, and it's funny this has never been discussed here before given that there are so many lurkers here who aim for a top PhD program.

 

Anyway, after reviewing many CVs and thoroughly covering the subject, here are my 2 cents:

 

In Europe: the best I've seen are Bocconi, UPF, and LSE. The rest are 2nd tier.

 

In South America: Di-Tella & PUC-Rio have excellent placements. In Central America I would also look at ITEM (Mexico).

 

Russia: New Economic School sends many of its graduates to the US.

 

Asia: Peking Univ / Tokyo Univ / and a few Korean schools do an excellent job as well.

 

Other schools to look at: Bogazici in Turkey, and in Israel Hebrew Univ/Tel-Aviv Univ which are also quite strong.

 

Lastly - there's been so much discussion over Canadian MA programs, but I have to say that as it seems they're really not on-par with the other program mentioned here in terms of placement in US PHD. I have no idea what's all the fuss here around Toronto/UBC/Queen's/etc.; they're definitely excellent schools with strong departments, but it seems like they place very bad compared to other schools mentioned. (UWO seems to actually prove otherwise to some extent, but it's not unequivocal as with the other schools mentioned).

 

Hope this helps!

[econphilomath]

See this other thread that went haywire and ended up being identical to this topic.

 

I'll link to my post there

 

From what I know coming from a masters in latin america, the placements are best from UTDT, PUC Rio and ITAM. There are other good ones also. I'm not sure however that placements would carry over to someone from say, the US. Usually students who get good placements are the best students from local elite undergrad institutions. I'm not sure it carries over to people coming out of the system.

 

Obviously getting a top ranking at a competitive program would get you some good LORs but I imagine its much easier to do well in a good program in the US and still get great LORs. There are some examples of students coming from Peru or Bolivia who don't have such good local programs and they use prograsm from Argentina, Chile, or Brazil as a platform, do well and then go to the US. But they have a good excuse. If your from a country that has good programs, why would you go out of your way to go abroad?

 

As a stepping stone, I think US MAs dominat if your from the US (with the exception of LSE). However maybe your main objetive is not to maximize ranking of your phd program and going abroad might be interesting in itself.

 

On another note, UPFs program is in english while those from Latin america are not.

(from what I know)

 

http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/80843-why-exactly-m-economics-nyu-not-good-step-towards-top-phd-3.html#post526296

[econphilomath]

In Central America I would also look at ITEM (Mexico).

 

I think you mean ITAM? Instituto Tecnologico Autonomo Mexicano

[Antonio]

how can you discuss about Master Programs in Europe that can give you good shots for US PhD programs and not mention at all

 

TOULOUSE ??????

[asianeconomist]

(1) LSE

(7) UCL

(4) Oxford

(3) Cambridge

(2) Pompeu Fabra

(9) Duke

(8) Toronto

(5) UBC

(6) Queens

 

Others: CEMFI, Torcuta Di Tella, Toulouse..............

 

One other thing; I believe that the ranking would vary substantially depending upon the caliber of the student. For example, only the top students from a less-known program would place well. Whereas, in comparison, a less than stellar student from LSE would probably place better than his "average" counter-part at CEMFI. Hence, if you are not absolutely confident of your abilities, LSE would probably be a safer bet.

 

P.S. I haven't got anything against the two aforementioned schools. I used them just to materialize a hypothetical scenario. Feel free to disagree/discard. ;)

[tangsiuje]

An issue that's been lingering on my mind for quite some time:

 

Tuition fees for a one-year MSc/MRes in Economics (or Econometrics & Mathematical Economics) at the LSE stand at £17,352. Living costs in London are quite substantial. The chance of getting financial aid if you don't intend to do your PhD at the LSE is almost non-existent.

 

How do you guys finance such a program? :rolleyes:

 

Have you been working in IB or management consultancy already? (i.e., have savings on pile)

Do you receive scholarships from your home countries? (If you're international)

Do you take loans? If so, how do you plan on paying them pack considering that you'd be living off meagre TA/RA wages for the next 4-5 years?

 

I always figured that most people doing these programs had either worked in the city for a few years (have savings), or intend to do so when they graduate (makes sense to take a loan). Would there actually be any students right out of undergrad who intend to pursue a PhD on these programs?

[zsla]

People have rich parents man :) £17,000 is not so big money for a lot of people. Moreover, EU or US citizens have easy access to loans. It is a simple intertemporal substitution problem for them. For "the others", getting education loans is a big problem. That gives monopoly power to EU and US citizens in some sense.

[econphilomath]

People have rich parents man :) £17,000 is not so big money for a lot of people. Moreover, EU or US citizens have easy access to loans. It is a simple intertemporal substitution problem for them. For "the others", getting education loans is a big problem. That gives monopoly power to EU and US citizens in some sense.

 

 

Thats part of the reason why "the others" (no, not form Lost, from other countries) have to spend a ton of time in local MAs before going to the PhD in the US and getting a decent fellowship....

[tim1012]

How do you guys finance such a program? :rolleyes:

 

In my case I plan on aplying for the BID/Japan scholarship, with wich I would go to do a masters in the united states (Vanderbilt`s Development Economics, Boston U, Yale`s Inter and Development Economics). On the other hand, I applying to the AECI scholarships for Latin America to attend CEMFI or Alicante.

 

In this days my country`s government opened a program with swedish universities, si I`ve been thinking about Stockholm university and Uppsala U.

 

What do you guys think about the programs I intend to apply, especially Vanderbilt and the swedish schools?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Cassin]

 

What do you guys think about the programs I intend to apply, especially Vanderbilt and the swedish schools?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Stockholm is probably a descent choice for modern (dynamic) quant macro. No idea about the others.

[fp3690]

I cannot stress that enough: LSE MRes is NOT MSc, it IS PhD. It's just a status, like in Columbia or Yale, you are an MPhil student until you pass the coursework requirements, and then you are awarded PhD candidate status, and you do research.

 

By the way, to zsla, we are all aware of your aberrant preferences, but UCL 1?? They're decent, I'd definitely go, but not 1. I have no knowledge of anyone going from UCL to a major US school for a Phd

[econphd23]

 

Lastly - there's been so much discussion over Canadian MA programs, but I have to say that as it seems they're really not on-par with the other program mentioned here in terms of placement in US PHD. I have no idea what's all the fuss here around Toronto/UBC/Queen's/etc.; they're definitely excellent schools with strong departments, but it seems like they place very bad compared to other schools mentioned. (UWO seems to actually prove otherwise to some extent, but it's not unequivocal as with the other schools mentioned).

 

Hope this helps!

 

So can anyone just give more information about the placement of the Canadian Ma programs?

[econyun]

i know two girls from UBC Master's go to Minnesota U this year

[zsla]

By the way, to zsla, we are all aware of your aberrant preferences, but UCL 1?? They're decent, I'd definitely go, but not 1. I have no knowledge of anyone going from UCL to a major US school for a Phd

 

Of course you have no knowledge, because most of their best students do not want to go to another school for a PhD. They are very good also in job placements even though they cannot attract the best students. My friend who is now a PhD student at UCL had declined Chicago's and Penn's funding offers two years ago and stayed at UCL, and she was not the only one in her class doing like that.

[werther]

So can anyone just give more information about the placement of the Canadian Ma programs?

 

I don't know who started suggesting Canadian MA as a good stepping stone for PhD either. I'm sure it's not a bad move, but I don't know if it's a superior move to pursuing MA elsewhere (i.e. EU for example).

 

The people who apply to MA are first of all, people whose profiles are not strong enough for top US PhD programs. Given this fact, a 1 year at a decent institution granting MA isn't really going to help you much (unless you pull a 4.0 and end up top of your MA class but the likelihood of this happening will be incredibly small).

 

If anything I think that an undergrad from a good Canadian institution has better shot at US PhD than an individual who pursues MA at a good Canadian instiution - I say this based mostly on the length of time/opportunities for you to get to know the profs better. For MA, the time frame is too short to get a sweet LOR. I've heard of undergrads at my school going straight to top 10 US PhDs while MAs here got nowhere.. especially the undergrads in combined MATH/ECON double major program. wonder why? If you go to a reputable undergrad school, and you take courses with famous profs, and SHOW that you care (it's easier to distinguish yourself from the pack at the undergrad level than at the grad level), make sure they know you, and make them think you have a potential.. I think that approach is better than doing 1 year MA hoping it would dramatically increase your chances of getting to US PhD.

 

I am under the impression that there are some risks to pursuing MA and that unless you end up being 1st in your class, the chances of your getting into amazing school probably wouldn't change much (before and after doing the program).

[asianeconomist]

I am under the impression that there are some risks to pursuing MA and that unless you end up being 1st in your class, the chances of your getting into amazing school probably wouldn't change much (before and after doing the program).

 

Aren't you being a bit too pessimistic here. IMHO, the top 10 % students from one of the top 5 Masters will have a high probability of placing themselves in the Top 50 (with a given background).

[can_econ]

So can anyone just give more information about the placement of the Canadian Ma programs?

 

last year, maybe 11 out of a class of 40 at UBC wanted to do PhDs. The best PhD admits were Michigan, UCLA, LSE (no funding); and Rochester, UBC, U of T, Pittsburgh (with funding); maybe 9/11 are doing PhDs at programs ranked in the top 50 in the world; and the other 2 are at progams with very strong faculty in the students' areas of interest.

 

Sure there are two or three MA programs in Latin America with notably better placement, but keep in mind that many of the best Canadian students will go on to PhDs straight from undergrad, and three comparable programs in Canada have to compete for students (UBC, U of T, Queen's). Students in latin American countries probably have worse admissions chances out of undegrad, plus these countries are huge and there are one or two really top programs in each of Argentina and Brazil so I'm not sure how useful a direct comparison of placements is. (and you'd have to learn Spanish/Portuguese to go there).

[econphilomath]

I'm not sure how useful a direct comparison of placements is. (and you'd have to learn Spanish/Portuguese to go there).

 

 

My point in an earlier post is that comparing placements is not useful at all. It does however give you a sense of the academic level at the program though.

[econyun]

 

Sure there are two or three MA programs in Latin America with notably better placement, but keep in mind that many of the best Canadian students will go on to PhDs straight from undergrad, and three comparable programs in Canada have to compete for students (UBC, U of T, Queen's).

 

What about McGill U undergraduate students????????????:hmm:

[flipecon]

how does mcgill MA Economics compare to other canadian masters programs. is it competitive enough? is it a second tier? coz im thinking of applying but they charge 160 CAD for the application. rip off.

[econyun]

how does mcgill MA Economics compare to other canadian masters programs. is it competitive enough? is it a second tier? coz im thinking of applying but they charge 160 CAD for the application. rip off.

 

did you refer to my question??? I was asking "undergraduate"

 

As for graduate.....are you sure you want to do Phd??

I know that McGill MA Math had a good placement in Econ Phd.

But MA Econ at McGill U..I am not sure..

one thing I m sure is...undergraduate at McGill U had a better placement than MA.