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fp3690 · 03-03-2008, 02:21 PM

Revealedpreference, you are the most obnoxious poster ever. Zsla is at least funny and eventually reasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by revealedpreference

No one, and I mean no one, considers Yale #1 at metrics

I do. I am a someone. So is commodore.

For all I know, you might be a hundred percent right. Hell, you might even be Peter Phillips himself. Just be nice!

eqtisadi · 03-03-2008, 02:21 PM

Hi revealedpreference,

I think your posts are very helpful by giving different, concise and sharp views, but there's no need to offend other people along the way. Instead of lowering the weights we put on their opinions, you can hint us as to who you are (not too specific, we respect privacy and all) and we might then increase the weight on your opinion.

That's my humble opinion, I know I'm probably just another insecure kid (that's why I'm here)

econphilomath · 03-03-2008, 02:23 PM

A toast, to all us insecure kids!

eqtisadi · 03-03-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by econphilomath

A toast, to all us insecure kids!

Where's that thread with the age distribution? I think I've got to the age when calling me a kid starts to sound like a compliment.

(that's the oldest-looking icon I could find)

econphilomath · 03-03-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eqtisadi

Where's that thread with the age distribution? I think I've got to the age when calling me a kid starts to sound like a compliment.

(that's the oldest-looking icon I could find)

lol

I feel ya

asianecon · 03-03-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by econphilomath

A toast, to all us insecure kids!

Who called me? =)

P=NP · 03-03-2008, 02:45 PM

Well, let me try to respond without resorting to a bitter diatribe...

The reason we say this year's job market candidates are not representative is because many of the 5th years decided to take a 6th year - thus we expect the number of people on the market next year to be huge (up to 30!). Also, although this is only rumor for now, I heard that people have gotten offers from BU, Duke, NYU (definitely not a complete list, maybe even better schools)...but this year's placements will not be representative due to the small number on the market.

Also, with Peter Phillips and Don Andrews, I don't think there is any doubt that we're in the top 3 for metrics. I strongly believe we're #1, but of course, I'm open to healthy debate in that area.

asianecon · 03-03-2008, 02:54 PM

I think Yale's "bad" placement can be attributed to the student pool it has rather than the training it gives. I'm not saying Yale students are not as good as the top 3/4/5 per se, though in Nalfien's blog he says that a Stanford prof claims this, but rather disadvantaged for so many reasons.

Take for example the econometric theorists Yale produces. Only a handful go to top programs. My supervisor in Singapore commented that Phillips likes to work with foreigners, especially Asians, but as Pakes notes, foreigners tend to lack institutional knowledge hence probably giving them a disadvantage in terms of US placements. Anecdotal evidence of the importance of institutional knowledge is the case of Panle Jia. She leverages her excellent training in Yale by focusing on retail stores in the US, and developing methods as you go about answering these questions.

Another example are my econometrics teachers in Singapore. Most, if not all, are Koreans who studied in Yale. These guys are excellent problem solvers but find it hard to search for "relevant and publishable" topics. Yale has given them the tools and intellectual ability to push the frontiers, but developing methods that lie in a vacuum wouldn't attract much attention.

All in all, I think we can't rely much on placement results as a measure of schools ability to train their students. In top schools you have a lot of self-selection, so as econphilo notes, it's difficult to see the value-added that the program gives. In my case, I would choose Yale because I believe they can train me well and at the same time (in contrast to NWU), they offer you a very nurturing environment. I know the metric theory market is thin so I'm gonna try to grab as much institutional knowledge I can (e.g. attend law school and business school courses, visit other schools and work directly with people who do applied stuff, etc) to prepare me for the market. Yale can only offer as much..

Or maybe I'm just insecure...

P=NP · 03-03-2008, 02:58 PM

I feel the program has a good degree of rigor, it's obviously hard to compare to other schools. First year classes give a broad survey of most of the major areas, but don't really go in depth into any of the topics. We're just lowly first-years, and I for one am not qualified to judge how prepared we'll be for research - I wouldn't want to mislead anyone

Let me just add that we want you to make the right decision, we definitely wouldn't want you to come here if you'd be unhappy. So do take our (biased, but well-intentioned) opinions with a grain of salt.

israelecon · 03-03-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commodore

That's a bunch of questions, I'll do my best. First, let me start with your assumption that Yale is on the way down. This is most definitely not the case. I'm not sure where you got this idea.

i got this idea from at least 2 very well known profs, one of whom is affiliated with yale. of course, no one said yale is not a top program, just that it is having trouble attracting people, or at least it is having a harder time than the other top programs. and that is part of the reason they are now investing money in the economics department. also when i say on the way down, i don't mean that people are abandoning ship, just that they are getting farther away (slightly) from the top couple of programs.
anyway, my understanding from these people was not that they are throwing money to save a sinking ship, but rather they are throwing money in order to compete with the top programs. and don't get me wrong, i am not saying this a bad thing for yale. i actually hope it is right, because if i can expect that over the next couple of years they will continue to invest in hiring good people then it will be easier for me to choose yale. i was more interested in getting feedback as to where you see the program heading and not where it was or was not ranked.
from their website, i could see that they hired three professors last year
(as well as three new people), i don't know if this is a lot (i think it is). and i just wanted to know if this is a trend i should expect to see continuing if i choose to go to yale. so does any one know who the incoming faculty will be next year, or who is leaving? are there any particular fields that yale is trying to strengthen?
just keep in mind, i am asking these questions not to slight yale, but because i actually want to make an informed decision.

03-03-2008, 02:21 PM	#82 (permalink)
eqtisadi Rationally insane Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 225	Hi revealedpreference, I think your posts are very helpful by giving different, concise and sharp views, but there's no need to offend other people along the way. Instead of lowering the weights we put on their opinions, you can hint us as to who you are (not too specific, we respect privacy and all) and we might then increase the weight on your opinion. That's my humble opinion, I know I'm probably just another insecure kid (that's why I'm here) _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ Going to: Stanford

03-03-2008, 02:54 PM	#88 (permalink)
asianecon Within my grasp! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 489	I think Yale's "bad" placement can be attributed to the student pool it has rather than the training it gives. I'm not saying Yale students are not as good as the top 3/4/5 per se, though in Nalfien's blog he says that a Stanford prof claims this, but rather disadvantaged for so many reasons. Take for example the econometric theorists Yale produces. Only a handful go to top programs. My supervisor in Singapore commented that Phillips likes to work with foreigners, especially Asians, but as Pakes notes, foreigners tend to lack institutional knowledge hence probably giving them a disadvantage in terms of US placements. Anecdotal evidence of the importance of institutional knowledge is the case of Panle Jia. She leverages her excellent training in Yale by focusing on retail stores in the US, and developing methods as you go about answering these questions. Another example are my econometrics teachers in Singapore. Most, if not all, are Koreans who studied in Yale. These guys are excellent problem solvers but find it hard to search for "relevant and publishable" topics. Yale has given them the tools and intellectual ability to push the frontiers, but developing methods that lie in a vacuum wouldn't attract much attention. All in all, I think we can't rely much on placement results as a measure of schools ability to train their students. In top schools you have a lot of self-selection, so as econphilo notes, it's difficult to see the value-added that the program gives. In my case, I would choose Yale because I believe they can train me well and at the same time (in contrast to NWU), they offer you a very nurturing environment. I know the metric theory market is thin so I'm gonna try to grab as much institutional knowledge I can (e.g. attend law school and business school courses, visit other schools and work directly with people who do applied stuff, etc) to prepare me for the market. Yale can only offer as much.. Or maybe I'm just insecure... _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "But the real prize of academic work is the privilege, freedom and fun of working on subjects of one's own choice. The joy of research for me is the work itself, irrespective of peer evaluation. The pleasure that comes from unlocking a technical argument, the excitement of seeing a new way of looking at an issue, the satisfaction of drawing different matrices of knowledge together in a productive way." -P.C.B. Phillips

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03-03-2008, 02:23 PM	#83 (permalink)
econphilomath Adriannn! Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,278	A toast, to all us insecure kids!

03-03-2008, 02:45 PM	#87 (permalink)
P=NP Within my grasp! Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 106	Well, let me try to respond without resorting to a bitter diatribe... The reason we say this year's job market candidates are not representative is because many of the 5th years decided to take a 6th year - thus we expect the number of people on the market next year to be huge (up to 30!). Also, although this is only rumor for now, I heard that people have gotten offers from BU, Duke, NYU (definitely not a complete list, maybe even better schools)...but this year's placements will not be representative due to the small number on the market. Also, with Peter Phillips and Don Andrews, I don't think there is any doubt that we're in the top 3 for metrics. I strongly believe we're #1, but of course, I'm open to healthy debate in that area.

03-03-2008, 02:58 PM	#89 (permalink)
P=NP Within my grasp! Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 106	I feel the program has a good degree of rigor, it's obviously hard to compare to other schools. First year classes give a broad survey of most of the major areas, but don't really go in depth into any of the topics. We're just lowly first-years, and I for one am not qualified to judge how prepared we'll be for research - I wouldn't want to mislead anyone Let me just add that we want you to make the right decision, we definitely wouldn't want you to come here if you'd be unhappy. So do take our (biased, but well-intentioned) opinions with a grain of salt.

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