Toulouse, Pompeu Fabra or Tinbergen for a masters?!

[asianecon]

Originally Posted by PBR

Asianecon,

I would like to ask you what are your prospects for TSE from the perspective of someone who wants to complete a PhD there. I mean, they are kind of revamping the school's image and perhaps smoothing the program's structure, but in terms of the faculty's research output and opportunities for grad students in the coming years, what is your opinion? In other words, can they keep their good standing? Thanks.

In my opinion, they will even surpass their current (good) standing. One must understand the past system in Toulouse to appreciate the current revamp. Before, IDEI was technically separate from the school (in fact they were just renting office space) and that IDEI researchers teach in the program almost as pro bono. Now it's different, which is embodied in the renaming of the program as TSE (prior to TSE, I wasn't even certain of my affiliation, ie UofT 1? MPSE? GREMAQ? etc). The top guys like Tirole are now more involved in designing the PhD program. I heard that they've been offering both junior and senior "chairs" to attract leading researchers with the intention of not only to do research at IDEI, but to teach.

As most of us know, TSE has an incredible faculty in IO and Mechanism Design. However, TSE is now gaining reputation as a place for highly technical econometricians, with JP Florens and Thierry Magnac heading the group.

In terms of students, my main criticism is that most just work independently. I don't know if this is a European thing (or Chinese thing since majority of those who topped the courses are Chinese) or it's just a result of the tough competition during M2 (hence, having the M1 as part of the program might alleviate this to some extent) so I can't comment much. Nonetheless, there are a few people who can provide the intellectual stimulus that we often look for in a graduate program, and I'm hoping these guys would encourage cooperation among students.

The main issue I have are the facilities. You have a library that is non-airconditioned and designed as a greenhouse, so you won't see anybody starting April. But whether this is an objective issue depends on the person. Take my comment with a grain of salt since this is coming from a guy who would have second thoughts about studying in a top program (eg MIT) because the campus doesn't look nice.

I hope this long post helps!

[AstralTraveller]

Originally Posted by asianecon

I'm actually unsure of the placement of Toulouse MA students wrt top US programs. As I mentioned elsewhere, I know only one person who left the MA and pursued his PhD at NWU. I'm quite surprised that TMers (or at least my good friend AT) now recommend Toulouse over UPF, since it used to be the other way around. In my batch, placement record is something like: 1 guy went to HEC, another to UBC (got rejected by Minn if remember correctly). However I suspect that the best students in Toulouse usually prefer to stay in Europe hence it is not a sign weakness of the program if we don't usually see MA students in top US departments.

I think you nailed it. Although all three institutions are excellent, I have the strong feeling that neither Tinbergen or Toulouse are a "launching pad" for a PhD in the States. I remember Ivan Marinovic, who after his master's at Toulouse went for a PhD in Accounting at Kellogg last year. But they seem not to be the rule, but rather exceptions. You are another. I always thought that most people who wanted to go for a PhD stayed at Toulouse.

Tinbergen --as well-- has a top-notch program which could compete with the best American programs, if it only was located in America (it really sounds stupid as I say this, but can't think of a better way of putting it...my brain is lacking oxygen after my current lack of admits). UPF's doctoral program has never seemed to be a formal PhD track, IMHO.

IIRC, Prof. Frank Kleibergen at Brown is a Tinbergen Institute alumnus.

[adam_smith]

I don't know as much as you guys, but I remembered that my professor from undergrad who did his PhD in Finance in Harvard told me that many of his colleagues there were coming from UPF. Now I don't know now with these MS and absent MRes...

[Nebuchadrezzar]

if I desire to to apply to the PhD (top American departments) directly from Toulouse (M2), is it hard to get good LoRs from professors in Toulouse in the fall?

and also, how can i find phd placement information for the Toulouse students?

[philipe]

Thank you all for answering my questions!
I really do not mind if I do my PhD in USA or Europe. I like academic freedom; all I want is to study what satisfies my desires! Tinbergen sent me an email with a very good offer for the PhD program (for after the MPhil). I don't know if it is normal, but they even told me how much they pay the PhD students (a very good salary, by the way).

I think both TI and Toulouse would be excelent for what I want. I would be very happy in doing my PhD at both institutions, and since I would work in Europe without problem, I don't think the criterion of "USA-placement" is important for me.

I also think the place you are living is really important. I talked to some friends and they told me the Netherlands is was too much better a place to live than France.

Well, I think the final decision is up to me. Your info were really of great value, and when I decide where to go I will let you know.

[PBR]

asianecon,

thank you very much for sharing the insider's perspective with us! that is my impression too...

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Tinbergen --as well-- has a top-notch program which could compete with the best American programs, if it only was located in America (it really sounds stupid as I say this, but can't think of a better way of putting it...my brain is lacking oxygen after my current lack of admits). UPF's doctoral program has never seemed to be a formal PhD track, IMHO.

IIRC, Prof. Frank Kleibergen at Brown is a Tinbergen Institute alumnus.

AstralTraveller,

I agree with you.

TI has a lot of top researchers and a demanding + comprehensive programme. Somehow I reckon thay have mismanaged the TI brand, a lot of people (and I mean young economists coming from top US univs) still don't recognize the name when they hear it. Their past academic placement is not phenomenal (The Netherlands is a case of its own in this regard, though; in addition TI is only 20 years old), but I guess this will soon improve. At least a few recent TI alumni hold (post-doc) research positions at places like Chicago, NWU, etc.