Job Market and Job Opportunities for PhD in Agriculture and Resource Economics

[Hirschman]

Hey guys!

 

I have been accepted by the ARE Berkeley program and by PhD in economics programs like UC Davis and U Maryland. Given my fields (development and applied econometrics), Berkeley would be a nice place but I am a little worry about the job opportunities and, in general, the way people with PhD in ARE is treated in the labor market, the research community (I mean, associations for economists like AEA) and policy-oriented organizations beyond agricultural topics (like IFPRI or FAO for instance). I know that there is a "penalty" for having a PhD in ARE but I do not have a clear idea about what the dimension is of this penalty. Do you guys think that is much better to have a degree in ECON granted by a low-ranked university instead of having a ARE degree from a top university like Berkeley? Do you have more information on this issue?

 

Considering my point below, what would be your "indiference point" between this program and a program in ECON? I mean, if I were comparing ARE Berkeley vs Georgetown I would choose Berkeley, but not vs UPenn. I think this would be a nice experiment in order to evaluate what is the "subjective value" of the program for people like us.

[macroeconomicus]

Take a look at the full list of Berkeley ARE's and Maryland's placements. Both are available online, and both look good to me, although Maryland's placements seem skewed more towards work in policy institutes, NGOs, etc even more so than UCB's. Since you're undecided, you should definitely insist on visiting both schools. Perhaps they could reimburse at least some of your travel costs...

[octavio]

Not trying to turn into Berkeley ARE's resident cheerleader, but -- their placements are great. If you haven't, check them out:

 

ARE

 

While they're not all outstanding, a large portion are excellent and many of them are in "regular" econ departments at good schools (UCLA, U Washington, and Michigan are the best shown). For those that are not in econ departments, you'll see placements in excellent public policy (UCSD, Pitt) and AREC departments (Wisconsin, etc.). Anyway, I suppose the placements speak for themselves :blush: My point is that they're better than many relatively well-ranked economics departments.

 

With regard to your question about the cutoff point between an econ and ARE department, I can at least give you my own preference. I am probably (not sure yet) choosing Berkeley over fellowships at both UCSD and Maryland econ. With an interest in development and applied metrics, I don't see how anyone could go wrong at Berkeley.

 

I think that the argument about AREC departments getting less respect is probably true to some extent, but I don't see that happening with Berkeley given their reputation and placements. Since you're in at Berkeley, the question isn't really whether AREC departments get respect; it's whether Berkeley ARE gets respect, and they do.

 

Anyone with more insight than I can give, please chime in. I think it's an interesting topic even if it's been tossed around a bit in the past on this forum. Oh, and I'd recommend contacting students in the department about concerns like this. There is a list of students on the website who are happy to help you out.

[zwicker]

 

Considering my point below, what would be your "indiference point" between this program and a program in ECON? I mean, if I were comparing ARE Berkeley vs Georgetown I would choose Berkeley, but not vs UPenn. I think this would be a nice experiment in order to evaluate what is the "subjective value" of the program for people like us.

 

 

My indifference point would be: Berkeley ARE vs. about a 15th ranked program like Minnesota

[Andronicus]

My indifference point would be: Berkeley ARE vs. about a 15th ranked program like Minnesota

 

I doubt many people would be indifferent between Berkeley ARE and Minnesota because their field strengths are so different. To a macro person, Minnesota would be great, while an ARE program would be entirely inappropriate. For an applied micro person, the reverse might be true.

[Hirschman]

 

With regard to your question about the cutoff point between an econ and ARE department, I can at least give you my own preference. I am probably (not sure yet) choosing Berkeley over fellowships at both UCSD and Maryland econ. With an interest in development and applied metrics, I don't see how anyone could go wrong at Berkeley.

 

I think that the argument about AREC departments getting less respect is probably true to some extent, but I don't see that happening with Berkeley given their reputation and placements. Since you're in at Berkeley, the question isn't really whether AREC departments get respect; it's whether Berkeley ARE gets respect, and they do.

 

Maybe there are some key assumptions behind our preferences. I like applied micro, development and applied econometrics, but I do not know if my preferences will change later. In addition, I also would like to do some work on political economy of development, but I don't know if having a degree in ARE will be a good signal for that after getting the degree. On the other, I am almost sure that I won't be working on agricultural issues. These are my concerns. However, as you pointed out, maybe this effect is low for Berkeley, which is reflected in its placement.

 

BTW, anybody have some information about how ARE students are treated by faculty at ECON or any other department? Someone told me that they prefer to work with ECON students because applied topics are not so atractive for many of them. It would be nice to hear some insights from someone there.

[MexEcon]

Hi Hirshmand,

Me again. I think your concerns are share by each Econ. oriented student accepted by Berkeley ARE.

 

BTW, anybody have some information about how ARE students are treated by faculty at ECON or any other department? Someone told me that they prefer to work with ECON students because applied topics are not so atractive for many of them. It would be nice to hear some insights from someone there.

 

I was wondering if Prof. Jonh List would give us some input about this. Maybe you can PM him and link him to this thread. He gave some really helpful information in the thread "Making the case for AREC departments" http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/85597-making-case-arec-departments.html.

 

There is a list of students on the website who are happy to help you out.

 

Octavior is right. I am definately calling a couple of this students. You should do it too.

 

Since you're undecided, you should definitely insist on visiting both schools. Perhaps they could reimburse at least some of your travel costs...

 

Macroeconomicus has a really good point on this. I know Berkeley ARE do not have an "open house/flyout/visiting" day. I believe it was Gail Vawter who told me this, but maybe if you express your interest to an especific Professor you could get them to help you with at least some of the traveling expenses.

 

Not trying to turn into Berkeley ARE's resident cheerleader...

 

I believe I can talk on Octavio's behalf (but please Octavio correct me if I am wrong). If you decide for Berkeley ARE, there is 99% chances you will probably have two TM friends arounds. :D

[Gaussdaughter]

Hi, I'm also a future ARE student. My major is development.

 

 

Yeah, I understand your concerns.

 

I visited Berkeley last autumn and had talk with Professors Betty Sadoulet and Ted Miguel (Econ guy). I found that ARE's job placement is pretty good!

 

They go not only to other Ag Econ but also Econ these days.

So, I believe we don't have to worry so much.

ARE has high reputation and plus, at the job market, the quality of the dissertation matters more I think.

[savingtheplanet]

I have been accepted by the ARE Berkeley program and by PhD in economics programs like UC Davis and U Maryland.

 

I have very similar interests to yours and would definitely pick Berkeley ARE over UC Davis and U Maryland. (Incidentally, I will most likely be choosing Berkeley Econ over Princeton).

 

 

...I am a little worry about the job opportunities and, in general, the way people with PhD in ARE is treated in the labor market, the research community (I mean, associations for economists like AEA) and policy-oriented organizations beyond agricultural topics (like IFPRI or FAO for instance).

 

As you point out, there is a definite difference in "prestige" between ag econ and econ within the hidebound world of modern economics. You will probably never end up teaching at a top-10 *econ* department with the ARE degree. Do you care deeply about that?

 

I can't imagine that too many policy organizations (and not just IFPRI/FAO) would discriminate against an ARE degree. As you can see from the website, many faculty at ARE do not work on agriculture per se. And, as has been pointed out by others, you can still end up at pretty good universities with an ARE degree. Incidentally, the placement at U Michigan from ARE (Meredith Fowley) is at the Public Policy school, not the Econ department (which makes for a way nicer office!).

 

Finally, I understand the program is quite well integrated with the econ department, so I'm sure you will have good access to faculty there.

 

 

Considering my point below, what would be your "indiference point" between this program and a program in ECON?

 

Mine would probably be a department ranked around 20, or a 10-20 that does not match my interests well.

[Valfierno]

Hi,

 

I have a question about the ARE programs. I see a lot of people concerned with the different perceptions from Econ or ARE programs, and… I don’t know if what I am going to say is completely stupid but, isn’t it possible to enter Berkeley ARE and after a year or so transfer to the Econ program? And the same should work at other ARE programs out there.

 

Without knowing a thing about how this work, I would assume that onece you’ve been accepted to Berkeley ARE and established after a year that you are a good student, then it shouldn’t be that hard to transfer even with courses and all to the Econ Dept. If you can do that then there is no problem at all and you shouldn’t care much about “prestige” because you could always transfer if you find out that the difference is big or if you decide that you want to do more theory stuff.

 

Just a thought ;)

[MexEcon]

Well I would feel bed leaving people that believe in me and supported me. I would understand that there would probably be some kind of disconfort because after all they INVESTED ON YOU. I understand what you mean and it would be great if it could be possible. But I am guessing they try to avoid this because if not, then a lot of people would got for the ARE program and end up transfering to Econ. I think this is why you are only allowed to apply to one department.

 

I might be wrong.

[viveco]

Hi guys, in between this discussion i thought of discussing the quality of ARE programs at lower ranked schools. Recently, I got offers from agecon department at Ohio, Michigan State University and UIUC, while econ Phd from Pittsburgh. My interest lies in development econ and anti-trust. I was wondering, whether the aecon programs in which I have got into would be a good fit for me, and also the opportunities in acadmia afterwards. Pleast suggest. I am really caught deciding between OSU and MSU

[Gaussdaughter]

As to the transfer to Econ, I agree with MexEcon. It's possible maybe to transfer but you will damage the relation with professors... maybe.

As to the development, ARE and Econ are totally the same.

 

Viveco, I dont know much about OSU so I dont have any idea about it but MSU has Jeff Wooldridge,a superb econometrician though he is in the econ dept. If you do empirics, MSU is great!

[viveco]

Thanks for ur comments Gaussdaudghter. Ya Woolridge is there and i have seen him serving on the dissertation commitee of few agecon graduates as well. I hope MSU is good in ARE also and yes I am interested in applied stuff. Any thoughts about UIUC agecon??

[macroeconomicus]

I have heard that MSU's ARE and Econ departments cross-list their courses in econometrics, environmental economics, and possibly other subjects. So at very least the instruction that ARE students get should be on the same level with MSU's economics department.

[viveco]

I have heard that MSU's ARE and Econ departments cross-list their courses in econometrics, environmental economics, and possibly other subjects. So at very least the instruction that ARE students get should be on the same level with MSU's economics department.

Yes you are true macroeconomicus. Infact for comprehensives, the agecon graduates havo to appear for both, metrics and micro, while in most other ARE departments students appear only for micro. I fear if that translates into higher attrition rates at MSU.

[Hirschman]

I was talking with a ARE graduate student at Berkeley and she told me that this year the ARE placement was much better than the ECON placement. Any of you have more information about this?

[octavio]

I was talking with a ARE graduate student at Berkeley and she told me that this year the ARE placement was much better than the ECON placement. Any of you have more information about this?

 

I don't know how ARE compares with straight econ this year, and this is just what I heard from a graduate student, but: I was told that ARE students placed at Tufts (Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy), Northwestern (Kellogg), and Michigan (Econ). If this is accurate, then ARE had a great year, at least with its best students.

[ritiritiriti]

I need to decide whether to choose Purdue or OSU to pursue by PhD in Agricultural Economics. I understand the Purdue is ranked higher for AgEcon, but Purdue has offered one-quarter time assistantship which is not enough to cover living expenses. OSU on the other hand has offered half time assistantship which will be enough. Also in some rankings OSU is ranked ahead of Purdue for AgEcon (exampleRankings: Resource & Agricultural Econ.Top Agriculture Universities Tallied For 2014 | Growing Produce). I need information on the following aspects to make an informed decision on the same:

1. Probability of finding additional one quarter time assistantship at Purdue.

a. Is it possible to find this before arriving at Purdue such that I have enough assistantship to cover my expenses from the first semester onwards?

b. If either yes or no to the above, what is the best way to find the additional assistantship?

c. In case I am unable to find assistantship before arriving at Purdue, I will need to partially fund myself atleast for the first semester. The shortfall is about 4000$ per semester.Assuming I do find additional assistantship in the second semester, is it worth it to choose Purdue over OSU after accounting for all other factors?

d. In case I am unable to find additional assistantship at all, do you think its wise to choose Purdue over OSU. For me, the only means of financing this short fall in the funding will be through a loan.

 

2. Nature and load of course work in both universities?

 

3. Since my interest is to pursue Agricultural Economics, while the course at Purdue is titled the same, in OSU it belongs to the Applied Economics degree. However a lot of work under this department is on Agricultural Economics. How different is the OSU course for students of Applied Economics who wish to pursue AgEcon and those who don't?

 

4. In terms of placements, how do students of both universities perform? Is there a focus on any sector by any of the two universities? How supportive is the department in helping students find placement, summer work etc.?

 

5. Are the universities individually part of any consortium that might provide me better exposure etc.?

 

6. What is the drop out rate in both universities and the reason?

 

7. My interest is to work in developing countries of South Asia. Do either of these universities focus on the same? If yes, can you suggest any professors?

 

8. Is there a difference in the focus on quant between the two universities?

 

9. What is your usual schedule? How many hours a day do you spend at school? Weekends? How social is the department? Do people hang out together outside of school?

 

10. How student friendly are either universities?

 

11. What is the difference in cost of living?

 

12. Any other factor that significantly sets the two universities apart from eachother and should be a factor in making the decision.

 

I look forward to quick responses on these questions because I need to make this decision over the next 2-3 days!