Info request about Michigan

[hlimethe3rd]

Hi All,

 

I've been browsing around here quite a bit recently, and I've found one thing lacking: information about Michigan.

 

Michigan is one of my top choices ( :) I'm in!), but I'm also in at Wisconsin and a couple others. There have been numerous posts and threads about Wisconsin, and I've learned a lot from them. The bad attrition rate, the lack of support (moral and otherwise), and the general condition of the student body. But could someone address these same questions about Michigan? A few posts here and there seemed to indicate that it was better than Wisconsin in these areas, but with no hard information. So:

 

What is the attrition rate like?

Are the students happy?

How much faculty-student support/interaction is there?

What else should be considered in a decision?

 

I'm looking for really any information that is specific to the department, not to me. In otherwords, funding is not at issue here, neither is department fit for me, and so forth.

 

Thanks!

[savingtheplanet]

If you've looked for past threads regarding Michigan, you will find a decent amount of information. To quickly answer your questions, though:

 

1. Attrition seems quite low. Last year, I think 2 students failed the macro prelim, and none failed micro. I'm not sure about attrition beyond the second year. You might find more information in the Student Survival Guide.

 

2. Students do seem quite happy. Us first years are definitely happy, despite the rigors of the first-year coursework.

 

3. Seems like there's lots of student faculty interaction. I just went to a potluck at a professors home yesterday, and it was a lot of fun. I have found faculty to be very accessible in my one year here.

 

4.

 

(a) Placements are really quite good here for a 10-15 department. It seems like when Michigan has good students to work with, they manage to get in to the very top universities. (At least one top-5 placement even this year, despite the tough job market).

 

(b) There are good young faculty in a number of fields (development and theory for my interests) who are doing some very interesting work, are accessible, and look to be very promising researchers.

 

I would easily pick Michigan over Wisconsin with my interests.

 

I'll be happy to answer other specific questions.

[asquare]

Hi hlimethe3rd.

 

Attrition at Michigan is low. I don't have absolute figures, and savingtheplanet's numbers are a little misleading since they (apparently?) refer to the number of students failing exams for a second time. In actuality, no one was taking the micro prelim for the last chance in this September. Six or seven of the approximately 25 first year students did fail micro and will have to retake it this coming September. Retaking the exams, though, isn't disasterous, and it would be very surprising if people are actually asked to leave because of exam results! Like other schools, Michigan does blind grade the prelims, but considers the whole picture before kicking out any student. Some people have chosen to leave my (third year) cohort, but no one has been kicked out.

 

In my opinion, students are happy! I certainly am. It's a supportive, exciting place to be a student. Attendence at seminars and social events like the weekly happy hour are high. Students socialize with each other and collaborate on projects.

 

Faculty-student interaction depends on the student. First years are assigned a faculty mentor, but this doesn't lead to regular meetings unless the student initiates it. There are also seminars specifically for first year students, to introduce them to faculty and the research process. Faculty are very receptive to working with students who approach them, starting in the first year. There are many students here who have been involved in research with faculty members since first year.

 

After first year, the level of interaction again depends on the student. Faculty members don't track you down, but they are accessible and willing to make time for students who approach them. They also attend weekly brown bag seminars where students present work in progress.

 

I've written a lot about other factors to consider (see threads on questions to ask current students and faculty). I don't know what other information you are looking for, but if you have specific questions, I'll try to answer them :)

[AspiringEconomist]

Asquare, as you know, I am also seriously considering Michigan.

One thing I was curious about is the trend in recent placements. You mentioned previously that you believed that last year's very strong outcomes were not completely representative. Could you elaborate on that? In particular, do you think it was a peak in a definitely stochastic process, or just a better than average year although Michigan is generally on the upswing?

 

If Michigan is in fact on an upward trajectory with regard to its placements (as appears to be the case to someone relatively removed from the school as myself), what factors have to do with this trend: better students, better faculty, or stronger support? Any comments you have would be appreciated although I understand that it is hard to disentangle factors in such a complex and unpredictable process. Thanks so much!

[asquare]

AspiringEconomist, it's just hard to believe that any year that places graduates at Yale, Harvard, and Berkeley is representative! However, Michigan has had strong placements before and will have them again this year. I'm not comfortable sharing placement information until students or the schools that have hired them release that information (and some people are still deciding between offers) but there are some truly impressive offers this year, as well. Moreover, the middle range placements are also very strong, which speaks to the overall quality of the program rather than reliance on a few superstars.

 

I don't know that Michigan's placements have changed suddenly or recently; my impression is that the program has been becoming stronger for several years at least. All of the factors that you mention are part of the process, and they reinforce each other. Better faculty attract better students; better job placements make the department more attractive to faculty and students, etc. I can't identify one big change. But I can tell you that expectations in the department are high, in a good way. Students and faculty feel like these sorts of placements are possible, and are eager to do the sort of research that leads to those results.

[Windplume]

I have a somewhat random questionn regarding dissertations (which I know are a ways down the road and all): does Michigan allow a "three papers" dissertation, or does it require one big one? I've read that the three papers version can be quite a bit shorter.

[asquare]

Three paper dissertations are common at Michigan (substantially more common than one book length manuscript). I believe this is the norm at most schools now.

[hlimethe3rd]

Thanks savingtheplanet and asquare! Your replies are very useful. Attrition rates something that I'm very concerned about. Not that I think I'm stupid, I just take it as a characteristic of the department.

 

Any idea of the "usual" time to finishing? (For whatever definition of "usual" you think is most illustrative).

 

How common are joint student/faculty publications?

 

I definitely like Michigan's recent placement record, though I don't want to kid myself into thinking I'll be working at Harvard in six years! Honestly, I want to worry about getting through first :)

 

Overall, it's looking more and more like Michigan every day.

[asquare]

Usual time to finish is 5 to 6 years, definitely trending towards 5 years. Some recent changes in the program (such as starting macro during the first semester of first year, as is normal in most departments, rather than waiting until second semester, which Michigan did until last year) are intended to help students finish more quickly.

 

Joint student/faculty publications are common. Several students in my cohort already have coauthored papers, and students ahead of us do as well.