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moneyandcredit · 05-18-2008, 12:16 AM

I have two related questions:

1. Should I even bother applying to a decent PhD program? I'm not incredibly interested in being a university professor and despite my good recent grades (3.8 on last 74 units), I'm worried my overall GPA of about 3.0 upon graduation will be insufficient for admission.

I started college at UCSB in a Physics BS program. Due to my poor decision to participate in the abundance of "unhealthy extracurricular activities," I dropped out in 2004 with a final GPA of about 2.2 in 2005.

I got into economics shortly afterward by reading some qualitative books, and went back to school in 2006, changing my major to Economics. I've gotten a 3.8 GPA on my last 74 units at LA Pierce College and Cal State University Northridge.

I developed very good math skills at UCSB, having to take the 2-year intro calculus sequence for my major with A 3.8 GPA among those courses. So I'm sure I can get a very high GRE score.

2. If I don't go for a PhD, should I go for an MA? I was thinking of just going straight to a Cal State (Long Beach, Fullerton, Los Angeles or Poly Pomona) MA program in Economics after graduating, working for a firm while doing so and then going for an MBA somewhere else after a few years work experience. Until today, that is.

I was talking to my Financial Management professor today about my plan, and he said it was crazy, claiming that an MA in Economics lowers a graduate's earning power because it sends a signal that I "can't hack it in a PhD program."

He also told me that the starting salary for PhD economists in finance was around $150K. I've seen nothing to back this up anywhere.

Any thoughts on these questions?

486hunter · 05-18-2008, 03:25 PM

There is enormous demand in the private sector for quantitative skills consistent with attainment of an MA in Economics. With the exception of a very small group of employers who are looking for people with skills and knowledge of economics consistent with a Ph.D., no one is going to see an M.A. in Econ as a negative asset in the job market. And earning a master's will certainly not lower(!) your earning power. That's complete nonsense and isn't even remotely believable. Don't listen to this guy -- he's letting his personal bias get in the way of giving you an informed opinion.

It's up to you whether or not a Ph.D. program is right for you. But you should not believe that you will not be marketable without a Ph.D.

treblekicker · 05-18-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moneyandcredit

I have two related questions:
He also told me that the starting salary for PhD economists in finance was around $150K. I've seen nothing to back this up anywhere.

http://bluwiki.com/go/Econjobmarket_offers

scroll down to the private offers. A lot of the offers after signing bonus are around or greater than 150k.

moneyandcredit · 05-18-2008, 10:16 PM

Thanks, both of you, for your input.

486hunter -- You pretty well confirmed what I already was assuming. I also kinda had the idea that my Finance prof was trying to sell me on UCSD's PhD programs.

treblekicker -- thanks for that link. It gives me that much more info to work with, and confirms for me that the really high-paying jobs are in places like NYC, DC, and SF where the cost of living is significantly higher than here in Southern California. SF isn't that bad if I want to take BART from across the bay, but I'd like to live near where I work, which is quite possible in LA.

It's still nice to know that if I really wanted to move to a place like NYC or NorCal, the option would be wide open to me if I had a PhD.

YoungEconomist · 05-18-2008, 10:29 PM

Some people are "torn" between the MA and PhD. However, if you have the grades to get into a PhD program, then I say go for it. If, along the way you decide that the PhD is not for you, you can leave the program with a masters. Likewise, if you don't pass prelims, you will usually receive a masters. Not to mention, earning a masters this way forces you to go through much more rigourous courses and pick up skills that will be very beneficial on the job market (consulting, finance, government, etc).

moneyandcredit · 05-18-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoungEconomist

Some people are "torn" between the MA and PhD. However, if you have the grades to get into a PhD program, then I say go for it. If, along the way you decide that the PhD is not for you, you can leave the program with a masters. Likewise, if you don't pass prelims, you will usually receive a masters. Not to mention, earning a masters this way forces you to go through much more rigourous courses and pick up skills that will be very beneficial on the job market (consulting, finance, government, etc).

Thanks, YoungEconomist. I read through the Profiles thread and noticed that people were getting rejected from the PhD programs I'm most interested in (UCLA, UCSD, Penn, UChi) even though they had far better cumulative GPAs while still getting very high GRE scores.

I guess I might be letting the best act as the enemy of the good, since I'm not excited about getting a PhD at a less reputable school. At the very least, I can still apply to the high-level schools and see what happens. Rejection won't hurt me in the long run, will it?

asianeconomist · 05-19-2008, 03:42 AM

IMHO, the MA in Economics will also give you a partial taste of what Econ PhD is all about and after completing that you'll be in a better position to evaluate that whether you'd like to continue to an Econ PhD. If you do decide to continue to a PhD, then good performance in the MA will allow you to get admitted to better schools (better than what you might be getting into now with your current profile). On the other hand, if you don't want to do a PhD, the MA program will prepare you for a career in non-academia.

moneyandcredit · 05-19-2008, 04:00 AM

Cool. I was unaware that PhD programs would accept me after spending 2 years in a terminal masters program somewhere else, like a Cal State.

oavdn17 · 05-19-2008, 09:18 PM

I met a guy last year , who is at UCLA and he did the MA program at SFSU...

moneyandcredit · 05-20-2008, 05:37 AM

Thanks, that's good to know, since UCLA is near the top of my list of places I'd like to study.

05-18-2008, 12:16 AM	#1 (permalink)
moneyandcredit CSUN Economics BA, 2009 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Topanga, CA Posts: 8	Should I bother applying to PhD program? MA in Econ bad for career? I have two related questions: 1. Should I even bother applying to a decent PhD program? I'm not incredibly interested in being a university professor and despite my good recent grades (3.8 on last 74 units), I'm worried my overall GPA of about 3.0 upon graduation will be insufficient for admission. I started college at UCSB in a Physics BS program. Due to my poor decision to participate in the abundance of "unhealthy extracurricular activities," I dropped out in 2004 with a final GPA of about 2.2 in 2005. I got into economics shortly afterward by reading some qualitative books, and went back to school in 2006, changing my major to Economics. I've gotten a 3.8 GPA on my last 74 units at LA Pierce College and Cal State University Northridge. I developed very good math skills at UCSB, having to take the 2-year intro calculus sequence for my major with A 3.8 GPA among those courses. So I'm sure I can get a very high GRE score. 2. If I don't go for a PhD, should I go for an MA? I was thinking of just going straight to a Cal State (Long Beach, Fullerton, Los Angeles or Poly Pomona) MA program in Economics after graduating, working for a firm while doing so and then going for an MBA somewhere else after a few years work experience. Until today, that is. I was talking to my Financial Management professor today about my plan, and he said it was crazy, claiming that an MA in Economics lowers a graduate's earning power because it sends a signal that I "can't hack it in a PhD program." He also told me that the starting salary for PhD economists in finance was around $150K. I've seen nothing to back this up anywhere. Any thoughts on these questions? Last edited by moneyandcredit : 05-18-2008 at 12:28 AM. Reason: Clarify future plans after MA

05-19-2008, 09:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
oavdn17 Red or Green? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Albuquerque,NM Posts: 37	I met a guy last year , who is at UCLA and he did the MA program at SFSU... _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ Attending the University Of New Mexico in the Fall 07

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05-18-2008, 03:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
486hunter PublicPolicy PhD, Econ MA Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 98	There is enormous demand in the private sector for quantitative skills consistent with attainment of an MA in Economics. With the exception of a very small group of employers who are looking for people with skills and knowledge of economics consistent with a Ph.D., no one is going to see an M.A. in Econ as a negative asset in the job market. And earning a master's will certainly not lower(!) your earning power. That's complete nonsense and isn't even remotely believable. Don't listen to this guy -- he's letting his personal bias get in the way of giving you an informed opinion. It's up to you whether or not a Ph.D. program is right for you. But you should not believe that you will not be marketable without a Ph.D.

05-18-2008, 10:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
moneyandcredit CSUN Economics BA, 2009 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Topanga, CA Posts: 8	Thanks, both of you, for your input. 486hunter -- You pretty well confirmed what I already was assuming. I also kinda had the idea that my Finance prof was trying to sell me on UCSD's PhD programs. treblekicker -- thanks for that link. It gives me that much more info to work with, and confirms for me that the really high-paying jobs are in places like NYC, DC, and SF where the cost of living is significantly higher than here in Southern California. SF isn't that bad if I want to take BART from across the bay, but I'd like to live near where I work, which is quite possible in LA. It's still nice to know that if I really wanted to move to a place like NYC or NorCal, the option would be wide open to me if I had a PhD.

05-18-2008, 10:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
YoungEconomist TestMagic Guru Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,071	Some people are "torn" between the MA and PhD. However, if you have the grades to get into a PhD program, then I say go for it. If, along the way you decide that the PhD is not for you, you can leave the program with a masters. Likewise, if you don't pass prelims, you will usually receive a masters. Not to mention, earning a masters this way forces you to go through much more rigourous courses and pick up skills that will be very beneficial on the job market (consulting, finance, government, etc).

05-19-2008, 03:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
asianeconomist Loving the game Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Where the grass is greener Posts: 673	IMHO, the MA in Economics will also give you a partial taste of what Econ PhD is all about and after completing that you'll be in a better position to evaluate that whether you'd like to continue to an Econ PhD. If you do decide to continue to a PhD, then good performance in the MA will allow you to get admitted to better schools (better than what you might be getting into now with your current profile). On the other hand, if you don't want to do a PhD, the MA program will prepare you for a career in non-academia.

05-19-2008, 04:00 AM	#8 (permalink)
moneyandcredit CSUN Economics BA, 2009 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Topanga, CA Posts: 8	Cool. I was unaware that PhD programs would accept me after spending 2 years in a terminal masters program somewhere else, like a Cal State.

05-20-2008, 05:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
moneyandcredit CSUN Economics BA, 2009 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Topanga, CA Posts: 8	Thanks, that's good to know, since UCLA is near the top of my list of places I'd like to study.

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