TestMagic

helpzwouldbenice · 06-20-2008, 02:45 PM

Has anyone ever used Microeconomic Theory by Walter Nicholson and Chris Snyder (Amazon link) during undergrad? I just got done with it, and I wanted to see how it compares to graduate texts (such as Mas-Collel, which I've never actually seen, just heard about from reading these threads).

thanks

asianeconomist · 06-20-2008, 03:28 PM

Yup. I had it for Intermediate Micro II.

The text hardly compares to the level of graduate texts such as MWG or Varian's Analysis.

It roughly corresponds to Varian's Intermediate text, although I personally find Varian to be a bit more rigorous.

Nicholson's text gives you a good intuitive feel for the theory, and also introduces some basic multivariate calculus concepts (especially in the Consumer theory sections). However, if you really intend to push yourself, then you might want to complement the text with some more advanced texts - Jehle/Reny comes to my mind.

helpzwouldbenice · 06-20-2008, 04:12 PM

After reading some of the reviews ON amazon.com (yea, i didn't think to read them before I posted on here), I feel like I should rephrase my question. What I meant to ask is, do you think the book could serve as any kind of substantial preparation for a first-year graduate microeconomics class? I'm currently a rising junior (undergrad), and I was thinking about taking a graduate class or two before I apply to programs.

asquare · 06-20-2008, 05:00 PM

Nicholson is a good introduction to economic intuition, but does not provide the mathematical background necessary to tackle graduate economics. (This is part of a larger problem: that undergraduate economics courses do not prepare you for graduate economics courses.)

paradox3696 · 06-20-2008, 05:56 PM

I beg to differ. If you have 2 or more semesters of Calculus and using Varian's Intermediate text in your undergraduate, you will most likely be able to make it (Graduate Micro) if you really work hard.

asquare · 06-20-2008, 06:37 PM

paradox, we will have to agree to disagree. Two semesters of calculus is typically differential and integral calculus of single variables, not even multivariable calc. Multivariable calc is a barebones minimum for taking graduate micro, IMO.

Further, taking grad micro as an undergrad and a stand-alone course (not taking the full first year core) puts one at a disadvantage anyways, because you don't get the complementarities between the courses and in particular, you miss out on math camp or the math class which is can be an introduction to proofs for those who have not seen them before. (This is in addition to the disadvantages associated with not being part of the cohort and its study groups.) I don't think Nicholson is sufficient preparation for MWG level micro in the absence of additional math background.

unitroot · 06-20-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helpzwouldbenice

Has anyone ever used Microeconomic Theory by Walter Nicholson and Chris Snyder (Amazon link) during undergrad? I just got done with it, and I wanted to see how it compares to graduate texts (such as Mas-Collel, which I've never actually seen, just heard about from reading these threads).

thanks

I disagree with asquare. If you understand this text well then you should be in a good shape with respect to economic intuition to enter a PhD program in economics. Most of MWG and other comparable texts rehash the same ideas, but in a more mathematically rigorous way. I don't know what else one could possibly read, besides strictly a mathematics text, to prepare for one of those graduate texts.

helpzwouldbenice · 06-20-2008, 08:23 PM

Not taking sides or anything, but I've finished my school's Calc Sequence (the terminal class being 'Calc 2,' which covers Multivariable Calculcus, partials, gradients, lagrangian, and basically everything else I needed to know in Micro)... it actually ended up being only one semester, so technically I have only one semester of college calculus, but I got credit for another semester in high school. Anyway, with all that calculus (and Linear Algebra, which I just finished), anyone think the book would be sufficient?

And for the record, I go to a liberal arts college (no grad programs), so I was just going to find some other school perhaps around some metropolitan area that would let me take their PhD micro...

asquare · 06-20-2008, 08:31 PM

Again, not on its own. There are many concepts from basic real analysis (not just proof writing techniques, but concepts such as compactness, continuity, etc.) that are central to the way that MWG presents material. I'm not saying that is necessarily the best way to teach the material, but it is the way it is handled in MWG and most graduate micro courses. Unless you have previous exposure to these concepts, you will need another reference or very good teaching to allow you to follow. These mathematical concepts are meant to be tools to allow you a deeper understanding of the economics, not an end in and of themselves. Some of them are covered in math camp or math class during the first semester of the PhD program, but if you plan to take grad micro and not the math class, then you will find there are substantial gaps between the micro in Nicholson and the micro in MWG. I think that Varian's graduate textbook comes the closest to bridging the gap, though even that doesn't close it completely. Graduate micro is simply taught at a completely different mathematical level than undergraduate micro.

IrrationalActor · 06-20-2008, 09:04 PM

I have a related question: my institution (not highly ranked) uses Varian's graduate text to teach PhD micro. Would taking this course be in any way worthwhile? Also take into account that I would have to go through a great deal of administrative red tape as my university frowns upon undergrads enrolling in PhD classes, especially in econ (for some reason).

Every professor I have talked to has not recommended it, mainly because it is taught at a fairly low technical level and differs significantly from what is taught at the top programs.

However, I am a bit nervous as the highest training in pure economic theory I've had is Varian's intermediate text, and that was almost two years ago.

I've taken a fairly rigorous proof-based course, Advanced Calculus, and plan on taking Analysis in the fall. Will this be enough to bridge the gap between undergrad economic theory and graduate, or should I look into options similar to the OP: taking a grad class at a different university?

06-20-2008, 02:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
helpzwouldbenice Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 7	Textbook question Has anyone ever used Microeconomic Theory by Walter Nicholson and Chris Snyder (Amazon link) during undergrad? I just got done with it, and I wanted to see how it compares to graduate texts (such as Mas-Collel, which I've never actually seen, just heard about from reading these threads). thanks

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

06-20-2008, 03:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
asianeconomist Loving the game Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,017	Yup. I had it for Intermediate Micro II. The text hardly compares to the level of graduate texts such as MWG or Varian's Analysis. It roughly corresponds to Varian's Intermediate text, although I personally find Varian to be a bit more rigorous. Nicholson's text gives you a good intuitive feel for the theory, and also introduces some basic multivariate calculus concepts (especially in the Consumer theory sections). However, if you really intend to push yourself, then you might want to complement the text with some more advanced texts - Jehle/Reny comes to my mind.

06-20-2008, 04:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
helpzwouldbenice Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 7	After reading some of the reviews ON amazon.com (yea, i didn't think to read them before I posted on here), I feel like I should rephrase my question. What I meant to ask is, do you think the book could serve as any kind of substantial preparation for a first-year graduate microeconomics class? I'm currently a rising junior (undergrad), and I was thinking about taking a graduate class or two before I apply to programs.

06-20-2008, 05:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,381	Nicholson is a good introduction to economic intuition, but does not provide the mathematical background necessary to tackle graduate economics. (This is part of a larger problem: that undergraduate economics courses do not prepare you for graduate economics courses.)

06-20-2008, 05:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
paradox3696 Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 133	I beg to differ. If you have 2 or more semesters of Calculus and using Varian's Intermediate text in your undergraduate, you will most likely be able to make it (Graduate Micro) if you really work hard.

06-20-2008, 06:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,381	paradox, we will have to agree to disagree. Two semesters of calculus is typically differential and integral calculus of single variables, not even multivariable calc. Multivariable calc is a barebones minimum for taking graduate micro, IMO. Further, taking grad micro as an undergrad and a stand-alone course (not taking the full first year core) puts one at a disadvantage anyways, because you don't get the complementarities between the courses and in particular, you miss out on math camp or the math class which is can be an introduction to proofs for those who have not seen them before. (This is in addition to the disadvantages associated with not being part of the cohort and its study groups.) I don't think Nicholson is sufficient preparation for MWG level micro in the absence of additional math background.

06-20-2008, 08:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
helpzwouldbenice Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 7	Not taking sides or anything, but I've finished my school's Calc Sequence (the terminal class being 'Calc 2,' which covers Multivariable Calculcus, partials, gradients, lagrangian, and basically everything else I needed to know in Micro)... it actually ended up being only one semester, so technically I have only one semester of college calculus, but I got credit for another semester in high school. Anyway, with all that calculus (and Linear Algebra, which I just finished), anyone think the book would be sufficient? And for the record, I go to a liberal arts college (no grad programs), so I was just going to find some other school perhaps around some metropolitan area that would let me take their PhD micro...

06-20-2008, 08:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,381	Again, not on its own. There are many concepts from basic real analysis (not just proof writing techniques, but concepts such as compactness, continuity, etc.) that are central to the way that MWG presents material. I'm not saying that is necessarily the best way to teach the material, but it is the way it is handled in MWG and most graduate micro courses. Unless you have previous exposure to these concepts, you will need another reference or very good teaching to allow you to follow. These mathematical concepts are meant to be tools to allow you a deeper understanding of the economics, not an end in and of themselves. Some of them are covered in math camp or math class during the first semester of the PhD program, but if you plan to take grad micro and not the math class, then you will find there are substantial gaps between the micro in Nicholson and the micro in MWG. I think that Varian's graduate textbook comes the closest to bridging the gap, though even that doesn't close it completely. Graduate micro is simply taught at a completely different mathematical level than undergraduate micro.

06-20-2008, 09:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
IrrationalActor Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 18	I have a related question: my institution (not highly ranked) uses Varian's graduate text to teach PhD micro. Would taking this course be in any way worthwhile? Also take into account that I would have to go through a great deal of administrative red tape as my university frowns upon undergrads enrolling in PhD classes, especially in econ (for some reason). Every professor I have talked to has not recommended it, mainly because it is taught at a fairly low technical level and differs significantly from what is taught at the top programs. However, I am a bit nervous as the highest training in pure economic theory I've had is Varian's intermediate text, and that was almost two years ago. I've taken a fairly rigorous proof-based course, Advanced Calculus, and plan on taking Analysis in the fall. Will this be enough to bridge the gap between undergrad economic theory and graduate, or should I look into options similar to the OP: taking a grad class at a different university?

TestMagic

Free GMAT, GRE, SAT Test, TOEFL practice tests