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Karina 07 · 07-10-2008, 10:50 PM

I think profs the world over will often argue over which classes they are going to teach.

Having done a master's in the UK, I have to say I liked the teaching style. There are plusses to it. Yes, you have to learn things on your own. That helps prepare you for the day that you don't get spoonfed, because people are not going to be spoonfeeding you Things To Know for the rest of your life. And my profs did care.

I approve of the system, really. It does depend what you're looking for, and I also looked forward to the American style of teaching -- the American system also has great strengths. But the UK system certainly isn't bad -- it just depends what you're looking for. Instead of saying the whole system is terrible, it's probably more accurate to say that it's not what you're looking for.

tangsiuje · 07-10-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpleportals

The lecturer should try to make the student's life easier and not to add unnecessary hurdles.

I think that those who teach in the British (German?) fashion do so because they are convinced that it benefits the student in the long term - they want to teach students to teach themselves.

I'm not saying that this is necessarily the best or most efficient way of teaching, just pointing out a reason why professors might end up teaching like this even if they're neither mean nor incompetent.

FilleNouvelle · 07-11-2008, 02:41 PM

Yes, I am aware of professors arguing over who will teach what, as I served on the committee that helped decide that. They do have an interest in balancing teaching with their own research, but the majority of conversations were about whose specialties were best suited to what course, not who could bear to be teaching it.

From the moment I began my undergrad education, the first thing they mentioned was that the lecture notes were not to meant to explain everything. They gave quite an extensive reading list as well. You can't expect to know everything from having maybe 2 hours of lecture a week. You do the work on your own, and if you have difficulty then you go to the lecturer. It is quite difficult to get As in the UK, and quite frankly, it should be that way. I don't think it is the job of the lecturer to make the student's life easier, I think it is the job of each student to be inquisitive enough to pursue it on his/her own. Especially at the PhD level, you shouldn't be expecting your lectures to be the place where you learn everything. From those who I've spoke to, they go to lectures because they have to, not because that's where they learn the most.

mpleportals · 07-11-2008, 03:14 PM

Guys,

I don't claim that the lecturers should spoon-feed the students. What I say is that very often they don't even do the minimum of what somebody who is called "lecturer" should do. That means that they just read what is written on the lecture notes (often somebody else's) instead of teaching, they don't provide solutions to given problems, their lecture notes contain errors and incomplete proofs etc.

Do you believe that is good teaching? Do you think that a good teacher can not find ways to challenge his students?

calchas · 07-11-2008, 03:15 PM

If this is truly the case, then what's one really paying for (and in some cases, paying a lot for) ? A piece of paper attesting you have this Masters degree from this university?

If the professor's job to recite the lecture notes and not take a lot of time to illuminate the various ideas, then, can't I just buy the lecture notes instead?

Basically what's the point in spending 18,000 pounds to learn material that they expect you to learn by yourself anyway?

(And I'll add this note - I'm strictly talking Masters programs .. not PhD type programs. I can accept the PhD programs being this way, but not the Masters)

asianeconomist · 07-11-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calchas

If this is truly the case, then what's one really paying for (and in some cases, paying a lot for) ? A piece of paper attesting you have this Masters degree from this university?

If the professor's job to recite the lecture notes and not take a lot of time to illuminate the various ideas, then, can't I just buy the lecture notes instead?

Basically what's the point in spending 18,000 pounds to learn material that they expect you to learn by yourself anyway?

(And I'll add this note - I'm strictly talking Masters programs .. not PhD type programs. I can accept the PhD programs being this way, but not the Masters)

Well. if one looks at it as a form of investment then probably GBP 18,000 makes sense as you are really bargaining for "reputation" and not "education" as per se.

FilleNouvelle · 07-12-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpleportals

Guys,

I don't claim that the lecturers should spoon-feed the students. What I say is that very often they don't even do the minimum of what somebody who is called "lecturer" should do. That means that they just read what is written on the lecture notes (often somebody else's) instead of teaching, they don't provide solutions to given problems, their lecture notes contain errors and incomplete proofs etc.

Do you believe that is good teaching? Do you think that a good teacher can not find ways to challenge his students?

Do you find that it is that way with all your lecturers? If you do, that's quite unfortunate. My lecturers never read off slides, nor did they fail to provide solutions. I just think that perhaps your bad experience is not characteristic of the British/European system as a whole.

I've had a pretty bad teacher...had kind of a hostile attitude and made me uncomfortable coming to him, but I generally think that the experience in the UK system has made me stronger for having been through it.

(Didn't mean to come off as rude, btw)

asianeconomist · 07-12-2008, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilleNouvelle

Do you find that it is that way with all your lecturers? If you do, that's quite unfortunate. My lecturers never read off slides, nor did they fail to provide solutions. I just think that perhaps your bad experience is not characteristic of the British/European system as a whole.

I've had a pretty bad teacher...had kind of a hostile attitude and made me uncomfortable coming to him, but I generally think that the experience in the UK system has made me stronger for having been through it.

(Didn't mean to come off as rude, btw)

Are you from Oxbridge ?

FilleNouvelle · 07-12-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asianeconomist

Are you from Oxbridge ?

No, I go to a Scottish uni for undergrad.

asianeconomist · 07-13-2008, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilleNouvelle

No, I go to a Scottish uni for undergrad.

OK. So the teaching style is not unique to Oxbridge, but rather rampant across UK and Europe.

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07-10-2008, 10:50 PM	#11 (permalink)
Karina 07 TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 727	I think profs the world over will often argue over which classes they are going to teach. Having done a master's in the UK, I have to say I liked the teaching style. There are plusses to it. Yes, you have to learn things on your own. That helps prepare you for the day that you don't get spoonfed, because people are not going to be spoonfeeding you Things To Know for the rest of your life. And my profs did care. I approve of the system, really. It does depend what you're looking for, and I also looked forward to the American style of teaching -- the American system also has great strengths. But the UK system certainly isn't bad -- it just depends what you're looking for. Instead of saying the whole system is terrible, it's probably more accurate to say that it's not what you're looking for.

07-11-2008, 02:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
FilleNouvelle Eager! Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 74	Yes, I am aware of professors arguing over who will teach what, as I served on the committee that helped decide that. They do have an interest in balancing teaching with their own research, but the majority of conversations were about whose specialties were best suited to what course, not who could bear to be teaching it. From the moment I began my undergrad education, the first thing they mentioned was that the lecture notes were not to meant to explain everything. They gave quite an extensive reading list as well. You can't expect to know everything from having maybe 2 hours of lecture a week. You do the work on your own, and if you have difficulty then you go to the lecturer. It is quite difficult to get As in the UK, and quite frankly, it should be that way. I don't think it is the job of the lecturer to make the student's life easier, I think it is the job of each student to be inquisitive enough to pursue it on his/her own. Especially at the PhD level, you shouldn't be expecting your lectures to be the place where you learn everything. From those who I've spoke to, they go to lectures because they have to, not because that's where they learn the most.

07-11-2008, 03:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
mpleportals Eager! Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 50	Guys, I don't claim that the lecturers should spoon-feed the students. What I say is that very often they don't even do the minimum of what somebody who is called "lecturer" should do. That means that they just read what is written on the lecture notes (often somebody else's) instead of teaching, they don't provide solutions to given problems, their lecture notes contain errors and incomplete proofs etc. Do you believe that is good teaching? Do you think that a good teacher can not find ways to challenge his students?

07-11-2008, 03:15 PM	#15 (permalink)
calchas Eager! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 69	If this is truly the case, then what's one really paying for (and in some cases, paying a lot for) ? A piece of paper attesting you have this Masters degree from this university? If the professor's job to recite the lecture notes and not take a lot of time to illuminate the various ideas, then, can't I just buy the lecture notes instead? Basically what's the point in spending 18,000 pounds to learn material that they expect you to learn by yourself anyway? (And I'll add this note - I'm strictly talking Masters programs .. not PhD type programs. I can accept the PhD programs being this way, but not the Masters)

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