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Tex Jansen · 07-22-2008, 04:58 PM

It is actually fairly common for one or two members of an enetering class at a low to mid ranked program to have failed out of a higher regarded program. I have noticed that it is especially common for people who failed the macro qualifier to give it another shot. The field seems more willing to accept a microeconomist who is ignorant of macro than vice-versa (for good reason I would argue.)

I can also think of one case where a mid ranked program (think 60s in NRC) had an unusually strong entering class. A student who ordinarily would have passed failed macro twice. She went on to a truly low ranked program that was willing to wave her first year micro sequence. She did vey well, actually managed to graduate at the same time as most of her original class, and now has an academic job (mostly teaching with some research) that she is happy with.

andyecon · 07-23-2008, 07:05 AM

I know of one person who transfered to the applied economics program here at UMN because he did not pass prelims. I don't know if it is the standard, but it has happened.

EMEQU · 08-12-2008, 02:22 PM

I know Wisconsin's prelims are already graded...I wonder how many people passed...Trudog, could you elaborate on this??? Tks!

TruDog · 08-12-2008, 02:42 PM

The prelims have been graded, and here's a link to the actual exams.

I don't have full information yet as to how my entire class did on prelims, but it seems like most people passed at least one prelim. Once I have more information about results, I'll be sure to pass it along.

I passed the macro prelim and came pretty close to passing the micro prelim. At Wisconsin, it is generally the case that the micro faculty grade prelims much tougher the first time than the second time, with the rationale being that we all can study more and really know the material come January. I'm pretty happy with the results, especially after how brutal the first year was for me.

Thanks to reactor, asquare, YoungEconomist, econphilomath, and everyone else for their words of encouragement throughout a difficult first year. And it's time to get back to studying so I can blow the micro prelim out of the water in January.

EMEQU · 08-12-2008, 02:59 PM

That's good news! I wish you well in your second attempt! As far as I know, two people passed on their third attempt...I am sure more accurate stats will be available as the fall semester develops...

YoungEconomist · 08-12-2008, 04:33 PM

Congrats TruDog!

I know what you're probably thinking, "Why are you congratulating me, I didn't even pass them both?" Well, I am congratulating you because you passed 1, and almost passed the other. I can't imagine that you'll do worse the 2nd time around, so I think you're in a good position to pass prelims at U Wisc, which is a great accomplishment.

Anyway, good luck, and have fun studying microeconomics the entire summer.

YoungEconomist · 08-12-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex Jansen

It is actually fairly common for one or two members of an enetering class at a low to mid ranked program to have failed out of a higher regarded program. I have noticed that it is especially common for people who failed the macro qualifier to give it another shot. The field seems more willing to accept a microeconomist who is ignorant of macro than vice-versa (for good reason I would argue.)

Anybody have any idea if these students can often get funding? Or is it pretty difficult to get funding after you failed prelims already?

I'd probably only give the PhD another shot, as long as I didn't have to rack up more loans to pay for it.

P.S. Your comments about microeconomist that fail the macro prelim is encouraging, because if I did fail prelims, I'd most likely be in that category.

natvanhat · 08-12-2008, 06:29 PM

I met a 4th year student during on of my visits (I'll leave out the school name, suffice to say the program made econphd.net's top 40) who did this. He had failed the comps at Wisconsin, left the program with a masters, and was now attending this second program. He was doing so without any funding.

I don't think this is too common, but this fact may have more to do with the morale of the student after failing than with the students inability to be accepted at a lower ranked program.

Tex Jansen · 08-12-2008, 10:27 PM

I doubt that many schools would refuse to fund someone who failed out at a higher ranked program simply for that reason. Big Average State U knows it is not Harvard and realizes that someone who couldn't make it the latter may be perfect for the former. The pople that I have I have seen give it a second chance have all been funded. Their second schools have generally been about 30 NRC spots lower than their first. Perhaps they could have reduced the fall in rankings if they were willing to go without funding.

Based on my own limited experience, people on their second chance: 1) are no longer shooting for a top research placement. They have taken their experience as a signal that they are not going to be a superstar but have decided that they want a career in academia, even if it includes teaching a 3-2 load. 2) tend not to be the stars of their class. Mid-lower ranked schools usually have one or two people that would do well at much higher ranked places but went to the lower ranked program because they were late bloomers, like mountains, want to work with their school's top guy, etc.

EMEQU · 08-15-2008, 07:13 PM

Tex Jensens' evaluation is about right and I couldn't agree more. However, somebody may ace each and every exam during the first year, but fail a prelim once or twice and be asked to leave. I know a couple of brilliant friends with perfect grad GPAs who dropped out because they couldn't handle the prelim environment. However, they rocked in their second attempt at a different school.
This happened less than 10 years ago. As a matter of fact, one guy moved from Chicago to Maryland.

08-12-2008, 02:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
TruDog TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Midwest US Posts: 588	The prelims have been graded, and here's a link to the actual exams. I don't have full information yet as to how my entire class did on prelims, but it seems like most people passed at least one prelim. Once I have more information about results, I'll be sure to pass it along. I passed the macro prelim and came pretty close to passing the micro prelim. At Wisconsin, it is generally the case that the micro faculty grade prelims much tougher the first time than the second time, with the rationale being that we all can study more and really know the material come January. I'm pretty happy with the results, especially after how brutal the first year was for me. Thanks to reactor, asquare, YoungEconomist, econphilomath, and everyone else for their words of encouragement throughout a difficult first year. And it's time to get back to studying so I can blow the micro prelim out of the water in January. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ University of Wisconsin-Madison--2nd Year

08-15-2008, 07:13 PM	#20 (permalink)
EMEQU Eager! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 52	Tex Jensens' evaluation is about right and I couldn't agree more. However, somebody may ace each and every exam during the first year, but fail a prelim once or twice and be asked to leave. I know a couple of brilliant friends with perfect grad GPAs who dropped out because they couldn't handle the prelim environment. However, they rocked in their second attempt at a different school. This happened less than 10 years ago. As a matter of fact, one guy moved from Chicago to Maryland. Last edited by EMEQU : 08-15-2008 at 07:14 PM. Reason: Spelling

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07-22-2008, 04:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tex Jansen Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 171	It is actually fairly common for one or two members of an enetering class at a low to mid ranked program to have failed out of a higher regarded program. I have noticed that it is especially common for people who failed the macro qualifier to give it another shot. The field seems more willing to accept a microeconomist who is ignorant of macro than vice-versa (for good reason I would argue.) I can also think of one case where a mid ranked program (think 60s in NRC) had an unusually strong entering class. A student who ordinarily would have passed failed macro twice. She went on to a truly low ranked program that was willing to wave her first year micro sequence. She did vey well, actually managed to graduate at the same time as most of her original class, and now has an academic job (mostly teaching with some research) that she is happy with.

07-23-2008, 07:05 AM	#12 (permalink)
andyecon Within my grasp! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 346	I know of one person who transfered to the applied economics program here at UMN because he did not pass prelims. I don't know if it is the standard, but it has happened.

08-12-2008, 02:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
EMEQU Eager! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 52	I know Wisconsin's prelims are already graded...I wonder how many people passed...Trudog, could you elaborate on this??? Tks!

08-12-2008, 02:59 PM	#15 (permalink)
EMEQU Eager! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 52	That's good news! I wish you well in your second attempt! As far as I know, two people passed on their third attempt...I am sure more accurate stats will be available as the fall semester develops...

08-12-2008, 04:33 PM	#16 (permalink)
YoungEconomist TestMagic Guru Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,369	Congrats TruDog! I know what you're probably thinking, "Why are you congratulating me, I didn't even pass them both?" Well, I am congratulating you because you passed 1, and almost passed the other. I can't imagine that you'll do worse the 2nd time around, so I think you're in a good position to pass prelims at U Wisc, which is a great accomplishment. Anyway, good luck, and have fun studying microeconomics the entire summer.

08-12-2008, 06:29 PM	#18 (permalink)
natvanhat Eager! Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 36	I met a 4th year student during on of my visits (I'll leave out the school name, suffice to say the program made econphd.net's top 40) who did this. He had failed the comps at Wisconsin, left the program with a masters, and was now attending this second program. He was doing so without any funding. I don't think this is too common, but this fact may have more to do with the morale of the student after failing than with the students inability to be accepted at a lower ranked program.

08-12-2008, 10:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
Tex Jansen Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 171	I doubt that many schools would refuse to fund someone who failed out at a higher ranked program simply for that reason. Big Average State U knows it is not Harvard and realizes that someone who couldn't make it the latter may be perfect for the former. The pople that I have I have seen give it a second chance have all been funded. Their second schools have generally been about 30 NRC spots lower than their first. Perhaps they could have reduced the fall in rankings if they were willing to go without funding. Based on my own limited experience, people on their second chance: 1) are no longer shooting for a top research placement. They have taken their experience as a signal that they are not going to be a superstar but have decided that they want a career in academia, even if it includes teaching a 3-2 load. 2) tend not to be the stars of their class. Mid-lower ranked schools usually have one or two people that would do well at much higher ranked places but went to the lower ranked program because they were late bloomers, like mountains, want to work with their school's top guy, etc.

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