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YoungEconomist · 08-12-2008, 04:23 PM

I've been comparing these schools in my head the past couple days, because I can only apply to 1 of them. I have some thoughts that I'd like to write out and get some feedback from you TMers. I think that Rice is better since I am interested in IO and Metrics (econphd[dot]net has Rice higher in both of these fields). It also seems that Rice gives out higher funding (although I wonder if it's enough to compensate for the higher cost of living). Furthermore, Houston would probably have better summer internship opportunities, given that it's a much bigger city (since I am considering the private sector, this may be a good quality).

Anyway, what do you guys think on the way these departments match up (especially in IO and Metrics)? Do you agree with my analysis above, or am I overlooking some things? Even after losing some people, do you still think Rice is better at metrics than Vanderbilt? Which city do you think would be better to live in and why (for those of you that don't know, Rice is in Houston and Vanderbilt is in Nashville)?

jeeves0923 · 08-12-2008, 04:55 PM

Houston is actually a very cheap city to live in. If you can handle the heat, the culture is very nice, the food is incredible, and Rice is right in the museum district. Overall, people tend to love it or hate it. You can probably guess which side of the fence I lie on.

In terms of quality of departments, I can give no better information than you have...

asianeconomist · 08-12-2008, 05:57 PM

Are there any specific professors that you'd like to work with, YE ?

unitroot · 08-12-2008, 06:38 PM

Vanderbilt seems to have more I/O and Econometrics people than Rice.

YoungEconomist · 08-12-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asianeconomist

Are there any specific professors that you'd like to work with, YE ?

I have not done enough research in either department to know any specific professors I'd like to work with. In fact, I haven't really researched specific professors too much at any schools, because I figure who I'll like to work with (and who'll like to work with me) is probably something I'll figure out more once I'm in a program and have a chance to meet faculty (and also older students who can recommend faculty members). Instead, I've mainly been focusing on places that offer fields courses in my areas of interest and are ranked/regarded highly in those areas. Furthermore, I sometimes do look at faculty in my areas of interest at programs I'm considering applying too, however, I do so to get a sense of the number of faculty members in those areas.

puecon · 08-12-2008, 07:03 PM

This question rings a bell because I think you were comparing Rice and Purdue the other day for the same fields. Maybe I am a little biased towards Purdue because I have more knowledge about Purdue and very little about Rice. However, I think that if I was, like you, considering I/O and choosing between Purdue and Rice, I would consider going to Purdue. Since I was also applying to Rice, one thing stuck me about it is that for some fields, if not all, including I/O, they teach only one field course per year if at all at Rice. At Purdue, there are 5-6 fields for which you're guaranteed to have 2 field courses offered each year. For example, every Fall semester someone teaches a course on theoretical I/O, and every Spring semester someone teaches a course in applied I/O, and my understanding is that Purdue has faculty resources to advice students in either theoretical or applied I/O. Moreover, you're also guaranteed here two field courses in International Trade each year (again, one is theoretical and another applied). The reason I mention trade is because the way it is done here might be of interest to I/O people. A big thrust of research in international trade today is focusing on the microeconomics (that is, I/O aspects) of trade, and this is what most trade professors teach and do at Purdue. They use the tools of I/O to analyze questions like the impact of product differentiation, market concentration, multinationals, etc on trade flows, a kind of like "international I/O" if you can call it this way. So, if you suddenly decide that research in traditional I/O is less than satisfying, you could always fall back onto trade and vice versa. Some students pursue both fields. Also, Purdue finance department faculty is focusing a lot on applied corporate finance, a field that might be related at least peripherally many issues in I/O, and so this could make a good secondary field for I/O people (corporate finance courses are taught every other year). I/O and trade are among the strongest and most popular fields here. With regards to econometrics, now that Purdue has the necessary faculty resources, starting this year you're also guaranteed to be offered two field courses in econometrics every year, and I have heard that the new econometrics faculty is very good. So, I personally would take Purdue over Rice any day, but Vanderbilt has its own interesting points (such as possibly very good international macro/development faculty).

sonicskat · 08-12-2008, 08:13 PM

I visited both departments about two years ago. While in many rankings Rice is below Vanderbilt...I would have chosen Rice over Vanderbilt for several Reasons (and would in your case). Here are some.

1. Funding... While this shouldn't be the #1 concern when deciding the school to go to, Rice offered me significantly more money to go. Also, after talking to profs, they were offering me to work on research with them as soon as I wanted instead of teaching. I even received personal emails from professors wondering if I wanted to come help them. While vanderbilt funds well, it was significantly lower than Rice.

Also, I'm sure summer funding at Rice is EXTREMELY easy to get. I have never seen a richer university than this one. Given they own tons of oil fields in texas and about half of the real estate in houston, they will literally pump your summer money out of the ground.

2. Department atmosphere. The general impression I have gotten from both departments is that Vandy is kind of backward thinking in many ways. I have heard from the grapevine that the administration of the department is pretty bad. In fact, they still focus heavily on Economic History, which many departments at their level are dropping. UVA has gotten rid of th econ history req and field. Rice seems to be a bit more on the ball. They have an econometric theorist. They are invested in building a modern macro department, and have been active in improving the quality of the department through young, actively researching profs. While at Vandy I met with more profs that don't do research than do.

3. Quality of Life. Nashville and Houston are actually both very cheap to live in, and the costs of living there are probably about equal. However, the area you would be living in at Houston is significantly nicer than Vandy. In Nashville, basically all the students life in the attics of area homes and rather "transitional" neighborhoods. While the campus is spectacular, the surrounding area is dense with urban poor. The Rice area of Houston is littered with many of the best hospitals in the world, and has a very cousy, homelike feel about it. I could live in the area in an instance, and afford a very decent apartment.

In the end, I highly reccomend visiting both if possible. Rice is very generous to allow people to visit, and Vanderbilt is as well. Both are good schools, and the programs seem to take care of their students. The grad secretaries at both are especially nice and helpful, but Rice's seemed to edge it out... she was called the "class mom" by all the students.

unitroot · 08-13-2008, 02:37 AM

You are probably right about the nice environment for graduate students at Rice, but I am not so sure about the other points. (Note, a lot of small departments seem to have a kind of down-to-earth , collegial environment with open doors, opportunities to collaborate with faculty, etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonicskat

I visited both departments about two years ago. While in many rankings Rice is below Vanderbilt...I would have chosen Rice over Vanderbilt for several Reasons (and would in your case). Here are some.

1. Funding... While this shouldn't be the #1 concern when deciding the school to go to, Rice offered me significantly more money to go. Also, after talking to profs, they were offering me to work on research with them as soon as I wanted instead of teaching. I even received personal emails from professors wondering if I wanted to come help them. While vanderbilt funds well, it was significantly lower than Rice.

The amount of funding should really be of a secondary concern to most people at this stage, except say foreign students with families and no other family members with work visas. A lot of departments arrange summer funding for their students as well through teaching summer courses etc (regular faculty is usually gone).

Quote:

2. Department atmosphere. The general impression I have gotten from both departments is that Vandy is kind of backward thinking in many ways. I have heard from the grapevine that the administration of the department is pretty bad. In fact, they still focus heavily on Economic History, which many departments at their level are dropping. UVA has gotten rid of th econ history req and field.

I don't fully understand this point. Do they put emphasis on mostly doing research in Economic History (which doesn't seem plausible) or do they simply have some kind of economic history course requirement? I don't see anything wrong with an economic history course requirement. I think it's extremely important to understand where we're coming from, in terms of facts and the history of thought, to understand what's happening now. Economic History courses also focus more on real-world economics instead of deriving as many toy models of economy as possible (many of which may be absolutely elegant, and absolutely useless for studying real world). Too bad only so few universities have an economic history requirement. There are too many economics departments whose graduate students learn nothing about real world economy in their first year.

Quote:

Rice seems to be a bit more on the ball. They have an econometric theorist.

Almost every PhD-granting economics department has an econometric theorist and Vandy has like three of them.

Quote:

They are invested in building a modern macro department, and have been active in improving the quality of the department through young, actively researching profs.

Wanting to build a modern macro department is not the same as having one right now. Who are these young, actively researching profs at Rice? Cordoba (growth) and Narajabad (money? and I/O). That's it. Vandy has a lot more macroeconomics people especially in money and open-economy, and many of them are young too.

Certainly, visiting both departments is probably one of the best things one can do. I have heard of many students, who like you, had a very clear idea about where they will fit better after flyouts. Environment, location, student morale, and other things that that matter cannot be measured without visiting.

commodore · 08-13-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonicskat

3. Quality of Life. Nashville and Houston are actually both very cheap to live in, and the costs of living there are probably about equal. However, the area you would be living in at Houston is significantly nicer than Vandy. In Nashville, basically all the students life in the attics of area homes and rather "transitional" neighborhoods. While the campus is spectacular, the surrounding area is dense with urban poor.

Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with this. I did my undergrad at Vanderbilt, and the area around campus is nice -- one of the best areas of Nashville, really. Plus, driving and parking are easier in Nashville than in Houston, so many students live in nice, cheap apartments a few miles from campus. In general, Nashville is one of the nicest cities I have ever been in, and I've spent quite a bit of time in Houston too. Nashville is far nicer and has much better weather.

sonicskat · 08-14-2008, 06:09 AM

Commodore, You're certainly entitled to your opinions as I am mine. I agree with you that the area around the university is very very nice. However, the sad reality is that the funding given out can't afford most of these nice areas.

When visiting, I even went over to a grad student's apartment to watch the bball game (Vandy was in the sweet 16). Considered the average apartment among other grad students within the econ dept and other depts, we were in the attic of a transitional neighborhood at best. Upon walking outside the university, my girlfriend and I were confronted by many homeless individuals, including some that very nearly became aggressive when we weren't interested in providing them our pocket change. No doubt, the university is gourgeous, Nashville is a very cool town, but unfortunately the areas where many grad students live is not as nice as those at Houston, in my opinion at least

08-12-2008, 04:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
YoungEconomist TestMagic Guru Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,369	Vanderbilt vs. Rice I've been comparing these schools in my head the past couple days, because I can only apply to 1 of them. I have some thoughts that I'd like to write out and get some feedback from you TMers. I think that Rice is better since I am interested in IO and Metrics (econphd[dot]net has Rice higher in both of these fields). It also seems that Rice gives out higher funding (although I wonder if it's enough to compensate for the higher cost of living). Furthermore, Houston would probably have better summer internship opportunities, given that it's a much bigger city (since I am considering the private sector, this may be a good quality). Anyway, what do you guys think on the way these departments match up (especially in IO and Metrics)? Do you agree with my analysis above, or am I overlooking some things? Even after losing some people, do you still think Rice is better at metrics than Vanderbilt? Which city do you think would be better to live in and why (for those of you that don't know, Rice is in Houston and Vanderbilt is in Nashville)?

08-12-2008, 05:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
asianeconomist Loving the game Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,017	Are there any specific professors that you'd like to work with, YE ? _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ The Pens have been lifted and the Pages have dried. - recorded by At Tirmidhee.

08-12-2008, 08:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
sonicskat Within my grasp! Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 256	I visited both departments about two years ago. While in many rankings Rice is below Vanderbilt...I would have chosen Rice over Vanderbilt for several Reasons (and would in your case). Here are some. 1. Funding... While this shouldn't be the #1 concern when deciding the school to go to, Rice offered me significantly more money to go. Also, after talking to profs, they were offering me to work on research with them as soon as I wanted instead of teaching. I even received personal emails from professors wondering if I wanted to come help them. While vanderbilt funds well, it was significantly lower than Rice. Also, I'm sure summer funding at Rice is EXTREMELY easy to get. I have never seen a richer university than this one. Given they own tons of oil fields in texas and about half of the real estate in houston, they will literally pump your summer money out of the ground. 2. Department atmosphere. The general impression I have gotten from both departments is that Vandy is kind of backward thinking in many ways. I have heard from the grapevine that the administration of the department is pretty bad. In fact, they still focus heavily on Economic History, which many departments at their level are dropping. UVA has gotten rid of th econ history req and field. Rice seems to be a bit more on the ball. They have an econometric theorist. They are invested in building a modern macro department, and have been active in improving the quality of the department through young, actively researching profs. While at Vandy I met with more profs that don't do research than do. 3. Quality of Life. Nashville and Houston are actually both very cheap to live in, and the costs of living there are probably about equal. However, the area you would be living in at Houston is significantly nicer than Vandy. In Nashville, basically all the students life in the attics of area homes and rather "transitional" neighborhoods. While the campus is spectacular, the surrounding area is dense with urban poor. The Rice area of Houston is littered with many of the best hospitals in the world, and has a very cousy, homelike feel about it. I could live in the area in an instance, and afford a very decent apartment. In the end, I highly reccomend visiting both if possible. Rice is very generous to allow people to visit, and Vanderbilt is as well. Both are good schools, and the programs seem to take care of their students. The grad secretaries at both are especially nice and helpful, but Rice's seemed to edge it out... she was called the "class mom" by all the students. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ UVA-- A first year, no longer

08-14-2008, 06:09 AM	#10 (permalink)
sonicskat Within my grasp! Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 256	Commodore, You're certainly entitled to your opinions as I am mine. I agree with you that the area around the university is very very nice. However, the sad reality is that the funding given out can't afford most of these nice areas. When visiting, I even went over to a grad student's apartment to watch the bball game (Vandy was in the sweet 16). Considered the average apartment among other grad students within the econ dept and other depts, we were in the attic of a transitional neighborhood at best. Upon walking outside the university, my girlfriend and I were confronted by many homeless individuals, including some that very nearly became aggressive when we weren't interested in providing them our pocket change. No doubt, the university is gourgeous, Nashville is a very cool town, but unfortunately the areas where many grad students live is not as nice as those at Houston, in my opinion at least _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ UVA-- A first year, no longer

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08-12-2008, 04:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
jeeves0923 Within my grasp! Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 476	Houston is actually a very cheap city to live in. If you can handle the heat, the culture is very nice, the food is incredible, and Rice is right in the museum district. Overall, people tend to love it or hate it. You can probably guess which side of the fence I lie on. In terms of quality of departments, I can give no better information than you have...

08-12-2008, 06:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
unitroot Within my grasp! Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 188	Vanderbilt seems to have more I/O and Econometrics people than Rice.

08-12-2008, 07:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
puecon Eager! Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 31	This question rings a bell because I think you were comparing Rice and Purdue the other day for the same fields. Maybe I am a little biased towards Purdue because I have more knowledge about Purdue and very little about Rice. However, I think that if I was, like you, considering I/O and choosing between Purdue and Rice, I would consider going to Purdue. Since I was also applying to Rice, one thing stuck me about it is that for some fields, if not all, including I/O, they teach only one field course per year if at all at Rice. At Purdue, there are 5-6 fields for which you're guaranteed to have 2 field courses offered each year. For example, every Fall semester someone teaches a course on theoretical I/O, and every Spring semester someone teaches a course in applied I/O, and my understanding is that Purdue has faculty resources to advice students in either theoretical or applied I/O. Moreover, you're also guaranteed here two field courses in International Trade each year (again, one is theoretical and another applied). The reason I mention trade is because the way it is done here might be of interest to I/O people. A big thrust of research in international trade today is focusing on the microeconomics (that is, I/O aspects) of trade, and this is what most trade professors teach and do at Purdue. They use the tools of I/O to analyze questions like the impact of product differentiation, market concentration, multinationals, etc on trade flows, a kind of like "international I/O" if you can call it this way. So, if you suddenly decide that research in traditional I/O is less than satisfying, you could always fall back onto trade and vice versa. Some students pursue both fields. Also, Purdue finance department faculty is focusing a lot on applied corporate finance, a field that might be related at least peripherally many issues in I/O, and so this could make a good secondary field for I/O people (corporate finance courses are taught every other year). I/O and trade are among the strongest and most popular fields here. With regards to econometrics, now that Purdue has the necessary faculty resources, starting this year you're also guaranteed to be offered two field courses in econometrics every year, and I have heard that the new econometrics faculty is very good. So, I personally would take Purdue over Rice any day, but Vanderbilt has its own interesting points (such as possibly very good international macro/development faculty).

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