TOEFL speaking score needed for your qualification or course - please let me know!

[Englishraven]

Hi there,

I am in the process of writing an extended blog article about how I think TOEFL test scores are being misused for certain academic and professional qualification requirements.

I am somewhat familiar with the scores needed for certain professions, but just to get my facts straight, I'd appreciate it if the forum members here could tell me specifically about the scores they need for their qualification.

So please respond and tell me:

1. What course or qualification you are applying for

2. The TOEFL section scores needed (R, L, S, W)

Once I get this information from people and write up the blog post, I'll notify you here when it is ready.


Just out of interest, I will be making some arguments about why IELTS may be a more appropriate measuring tool, but also the TOEIC speaking test - which in my opinion is far more appropriate for professions like pharmacy or physical therapy, etc.


Look forward to hearing from you!

~ Jason

[Gloridae]

Hi Jason,

I can be the first one to give you some details. For the requirements to practice pharmacy in the US we are being asked to have the following scores;

R= 21
L=18
S=26
W=24

Thanks for your concern for our cause.

Originally Posted by Englishraven

Hi there,

I am in the process of writing an extended blog article about how I think TOEFL test scores are being misused for certain academic and professional qualification requirements.

I am somewhat familiar with the scores needed for certain professions, but just to get my facts straight, I'd appreciate it if the forum members here could tell me specifically about the scores they need for their qualification.

So please respond and tell me:

1. What course or qualification you are applying for

2. The TOEFL section scores needed (R, L, S, W)

Once I get this information from people and write up the blog post, I'll notify you here when it is ready.


Just out of interest, I will be making some arguments about why IELTS may be a more appropriate measuring tool, but also the TOEIC speaking test - which in my opinion is far more appropriate for professions like pharmacy or physical therapy, etc.


Look forward to hearing from you!

~ Jason

[Englishraven]

Thanks Gloridae for that information.

One pattern has already become obvious to me - that the scores required for reading and listening (the receptive skills) are significantly lower than the speaking and writing (or productive) skills. It's almost like saying "we want you to be able to speak and write well, even if you can't really understand what you listen to or read"!

As any experienced English teacher will tell you, receptive skills come first and will always outweigh the productive skills for non-native speakers. In addition, I find it disturbing that the higher scores are required for sections of the test that are 'human-rated' and therefore are less reliable and even potentially prone to 'rater bias'.

Looking at the scores you mention, it would look far more reasonable to me to reverse them, and require:

R 24 | W 21 | L 26 | S 18

(If only... right?)

Anyway, much more commentary and analysis to come in my upcoming blog post on this topic.

Please do add your required scores by section, everyone, and tell me the particular field or profession it relates to.

Thanks,

~ Jason

[TOEFL Corey]

As a TOEFL teacher, I work with more pharmacists than any other professional group here in the U.S., but the requirements for registered nurses seem even stranger. The requirements may differ by individual state, but the last few I have tutored required the same 'magic 26' in speaking as other professional people but an oveall score of 83. This means that they would have to average just 19 on the other three sections while reaching a level in speaking that is only reached by 10 - 15 percent of test-takers. It definitely seems a bit arbitrary!

[knok]

All of requirements of professional boards are for political reasons. ETS can manipulate how many candidates can get 26 on speaking each time. The passing rate is < 10 percent. If the boards switch the requirements as you mentioned above, many people will get license easily. That's not the way the boards want.

Easily look at the average score for American students. It is 22 on the speaking section. The boards require higher than a average native speaker .

Anyone who received 24, it means that he/she already passed with 26 but no quota for more people to get 26 on that test.

One practice that I can see how unfair we are treated is that if you are late for the test, you lose your test fee or if you register less than a week, you get charged $35 whereas if ETS fail to run the test on that day, ETS does not give us $35 or even the cost of the hotel and traveling.

Someone may not want to receive a negative review. Then, he/she continues to register and pay for it for 40-50 times.

However, what comes around, goes around!

[Englishraven]

Hi Corey and Knok,

Thanks for your comments. Like you, Corey, many of my online students for TOEFL are pharmacists or nurses - though I do get a lot of students needing specific scores for academic entry into particular university programs as well.

Knok, your comments are very interesting (they seem to make sense, but I'd urge some caution: do you have specific - beyond anecdotal - evidence to support those claims?). Your cause is an important one.

I was actually in a pharmacy recently and it got me thinking about TOEFL speaking and how it relates to that profession. The connection is extremely thin - and as I've hinted above, I really do believe TOEIC speaking and writing would be a far more appropriate measuring tool. That goes for nursing, therapists, or any other professional occupation for that matter. It is administered online in the same way TOEFL iBT is, so the argument about access/frequency should be equally valid as well.

Interesting discussion...

~ Jason

[pembina]

In the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia, Canada, to be eligible for the Teaching Certificate the minimum standard scores required in the four categories are 27 in Speaking, 25 in Writing, 23 in Listening and Reading.

Ontario College of Teachers requires 24R, 23L, 28S, 28W.

[evion]

I am a physical therapist and the requirements for us to get a license in the US as follow:

Minimum Score
Total Score 89
Composite of reading comprehension, listening comprehension and writing 63
Speaking 26

Speaking play the tricky part.

Thanks..I am currently studying for Toefl and will take the exam by December and what really concerned me is the speaking part. One reply here said it has actually a quota basis.That seems unfair if it is true...