Where to complain against ETS/TOEFL test conditions

[Hobicat]

Originally Posted by knok

Many test takers have advanced degrees in the USA but have failed speaking big time, not because they cannot communicate but because they feel considerate to yell and disturb others. The testing rooms usually are closed so we can hear reflection of voices. This kind of environment makes it worse. In sum, ETS should refund all testing fees to test takers who were set to take the tests.

ETS thought that foreigners were taking TOEFL so they could not complain. Come on!

I'd like to ask a question in regards to the complaints that have been filed lately.

Your main point is the unfair test conditions and how that affects particularly the speaking section.

At the same time people seem to be enraged (to put it mildly) that the passing score is too high (26).

But you are talking about two different things here. Even if ETS made a big time effort to greatly improve test conditions, for example by assigning every applicant their own test room, then the problem with the passing score would still be there.

Do better test conditions correlate with significantly better test results? That would be nice, wouldn't it? And maybe everybody would reach that magic 26 all of a sudden. But then again, if that was the case, there would be no reason to protest against that arbitrarily chosen passing score for the speaking section in the first place.

So bascially what you're asking for is:

- better test conditions AND

- a lower passing score.

A lot of people, including myself, appreciate your initiative for change but I have doubts that it will cause ETS or NABP to drastically change anything.

If better conditions means higher scores then why should they lower them?

[Tino]

Better conditions is NOT the point. The point is REASONABLE conditions! Now the test center conditions are horrible, and completely unmonitored by ETS. It is a total joke. We are not asking for a Ferrari, just a car that is not already on fire.... haha

Further, test conditions affect everyone, not just medical professionals. The NABP and other boards requirements are seperate issues. What about all the students who cannot get a test date in time for admissions, or whose test score is lost, or whose score is greatly impacted by horrible conditions?

ETS will change if there are enough complaints. Either individuals or a state governement can file a lawsuit, and the court can order ETS to change. It happens all the time. The only difficulty here is that so many of the people affected prefer to do nothing, or feel that their efforts will have no effect. Sad....

As for NABP, I think they can at least be convinced to accept an alternative to the TOEFL, such as IELTS. And a successful suit against ETS would push that through quickly.

Tino

[knok]

Thanks, Tino. You're the person who knows best about terrifying, horrible, and annoying testing conditions. Many American friends told me that everything must be done in the justice system.

[Hobicat]

Originally Posted by Tino

Better conditions is NOT the point. The point is REASONABLE conditions! Now the test center conditions are horrible, and completely unmonitored by ETS. It is a total joke. We are not asking for a Ferrari, just a car that is not already on fire.... haha

Further, test conditions affect everyone, not just medical professionals. The NABP and other boards requirements are seperate issues. What about all the students who cannot get a test date in time for admissions, or whose test score is lost, or whose score is greatly impacted by horrible conditions?

ETS will change if there are enough complaints. Either individuals or a state governement can file a lawsuit, and the court can order ETS to change. It happens all the time. The only difficulty here is that so many of the people affected prefer to do nothing, or feel that their efforts will have no effect. Sad....

As for NABP, I think they can at least be convinced to accept an alternative to the TOEFL, such as IELTS. And a successful suit against ETS would push that through quickly.

Tino

Hi Tino,

I took the TOEFL iBT this last June and I can't complain. So it seems test conditions vary from place to place.

However, I do agree with you that test conditions need to be reasonable at every test center in order to get reasonable scores, or at least the score that everyone deserves. And hopefully that will be the case soon.

What I'm trying to say though is that even with reasonable test conditions, the hurdle of scoring 26 points (at least for FPGEE takers) in the speaking section remains.

Asking for better conditions - rightfully so - has nothing to do with lowering minimum scores. Because if better conditions do improve the overall performance for all test takers then where is the incentive for the NABP to lower their requirements?

Thanks for your input.

[tse_2005]

Originally Posted by Tienshinhan

Hey guys, do you really think that all this complaining is going to change any thing. I really doubt this. They needn't change their system just because of a few complaints.

Hi guys

I wolud suggest we should contact to respective SENETOR OR CONGRESSMAN who can take care of this matter because this thing is going of the hook and nobody cares about this.

Give your opinion on this matter too.

[arubaohio]

@ Hobicat,
Dear Hobicat it looks like you like to start arguments all by yourself (you state something, than you argue against it, yourself). Who said anything about decreasing the TOEFL barriers? Knok didn't, I didn't.
All it is debated here is the simple fact that if anyone talks loud near you it would be very difficult for most of the people to concentrate, and hence to be the best that they can be during a test.
I admit that some geniuses, and you might be among them, may not be affected by noise, but this is not my case.

@ Knok
Dear Knok what I was trying to say is the fact that even ETS admits in their report that the conditions are not appropriate - even if I had to pick those paragraphs from their report - it should be clear to anyone that a problem exists. I understand your point of view that the reports from some company auditing itself is not credible, because of the likelyness that they "sugar coat" the truth.
However in this case they themselves ADMIT that they have a problem and the test conditions are not appropriate.
Otherwise you hit the nail in the head in your posting.

Thank you everybody,

aruba

[knok]

Originally Posted by arubaohio

@ Knok
Dear Knok what I was trying to say is the fact that even ETS admits in their report that the conditions are not appropriate - even if I had to pick those paragraphs from their report - it should be clear to anyone that a problem exists. I understand your point of view that the reports from some company auditing itself is not credible, because of the likelyness that they "sugar coat" the truth.
However in this case they themselves ADMIT that they have a problem and the test conditions are not appropriate.
Otherwise you hit the nail in the head in your posting.

Thank you everybody,

aruba

I agree with you but if you read carefully, it says that distraction does not affect validity of the exam. Moreover, it says that mothods of detecting distraction are effective and ETS will try to reduce noise level. It does not say that it will get rid of the distraction. It is called, "Sugar Coat" as you say.

How can ETS control environment when a majority of test centers are not standardized? Sources of noises started from test proctors listening to music on the computer without headphones, discussion of passport problems with other test takers, shouting of other test takers who have loud voices, to the echoes of microphones.

[Hobicat]

Originally Posted by arubaohio

@ Hobicat,
Dear Hobicat it looks like you like to start arguments all by yourself (you state something, than you argue against it, yourself). Who said anything about decreasing the TOEFL barriers? Knok didn't, I didn't.
All it is debated here is the simple fact that if anyone talks loud near you it would be very difficult for most of the people to concentrate, and hence to be the best that they can be during a test.
I admit that some geniuses, and you might be among them, may not be affected by noise, but this is not my case.

I am not stating, I am quoting what's been said in this forum about test conditions and the score in the speaking section.

"26 is too high - inappropriate - does not reflect one's ability to speak English...." and so forth.


But if you have no objections to the score as it is, fine.

Good luck with your endeavours.

[arubaohio]

Originally Posted by knok

I agree with you but if you read carefully, it says that distraction does not affect validity of the exam. Moreover, it says that mothods of detecting distraction are effective and ETS will try to reduce noise level. It does not say that it will get rid of the distraction. It is called, "Sugar Coat" as you say.

How can ETS control environment when a majority of test centers are not standardized? Sources of noises started from test proctors listening to music on the computer without headphones, discussion of passport problems with other test takers, shouting of other test takers who have loud voices, to the echoes of microphones.

Knok, I read carefully, and as I said I had to pick the paragraphs favourable to us. I also surfed the web to see if there are any regulations/rules with regard to Universities/schools test environment, and I couldn't find any.
All I found was Universities policies that said students are not allowed to yell on the hallways, during tests etc - but no regulations.
So what do we have, against ETS? Nothing! Just complaints of a number of people.
And you are still, purposely, missing my point, so I will state that once again: one company that admits - even if I had to pick the paragraphs - there are problems with the way they are doing things, hints that the problems are actually bigger, and and any person with common sense should see that.

aruba

[arubaohio]

@ Hobicat:
Dear Hobicat than you must have posted in the wrong thread, 'cause nobody said anything about the passing score in this one.
Thanks