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ZIO
01-17-2011, 06:43 PM
Hello to everyone. I really need your help. My Gre tsest scores were not that great. I got 720Q 390V 3AWA. I applied to Stockholm School of Economics, Bergen University, Erasmus university, Zurich & Geneva University. I have a Msc in Economics with very good grades and an experience in the banking sector. Do you think I got achance in any of those universities?

whatodo
01-18-2011, 05:27 AM
I have nowhere near enough experience to answer your question, but I'd suggest that to help those who do you post a full profile.


PROFILE:
Type of Undergrad:
Undergrad GPA:
Type of Grad:
Grad GPA:
GRE:
Math Courses:
Econ Courses (grad-level):
Econ Courses (undergrad-level):
Other Courses:
Letters of Recommendation:
Research Experience:
Teaching Experience:
Research Interests:
SOP:
Concerns:
Other:
Applying to:

_nanashi
01-18-2011, 07:38 AM
Its hard to say. Most people here won't know how to evaluate a european candidate trying to enter into european schools. Your banking sector experience won't count for much. Your MS.C grades certianly will. If you have good letters of reference from some of the senior professors in your department you should have a shot. My only concern is the GRE score. In american schoool a 720Q is sure to keep your application from getting looked at by most top universities. Foreign schools the story may be different depending on school, for example Canadian schools don't require GREs for students who graduated from an Canadian university.

oleador
01-19-2011, 06:43 PM
If bad GRE scores is your only serious drawback, why don't you retake the test and apply next year? The set of schools where you apply could be much higher-ranked then. But I'm saying this without seeing your full profile. You would get much more advice here if you post your profile in the form suggested by whatodo.

akmandal
01-20-2011, 11:11 AM
I applied to Stockholm School of Economics, Bergen University, Erasmus university, Zurich & Geneva University.

Europe. No good.

ZIO
01-20-2011, 08:42 PM
Europe. No good.
My gre is no good or the universities are no good?Please explain

ZIO
01-20-2011, 08:48 PM
PROFILE:
Type of Undergrad: University of Patras, Good grades
Undergrad GPA:7,36/10 top 10% of my class
Type of Grad:Msc in economics in the most prestigious university of Greece,
Grad GPA:7/10 top 10% of my class
GRE:720/800
Math Courses:A lot!!!!!! good grades
Econ Courses (grad-level):A lot. good grades
Econ Courses (undergrad-level):A lot good grades
Other Courses:
Letters of Recommendation: Top Professors of both the universities
Research Experience:Awesome Dissertation (I'm supposed to give a copy for them :) )
Teaching Experience: Chess tescher counts? :P
Research Interests: Macro Econometrics
SOP:
Concerns: low gre (toefl 92)
Other:
Applying to:Stockholm school of Economics, Zurich University, Geneva University, Erasmus University of Rotterdam, Bergen university of Norway

joako
01-20-2011, 11:08 PM
your quant gre seems a bit low relative to the rest of your profile (top 10%)... also for more accurate help you could be more precise/objective in describing your profile (top professors in your uni, top 10 phd holders? math courses, up to...? what is/are your major/s?)
im no expert but with a solid gre you seem to have a good chance at those european schools
just my 2c

WorkingHard
01-21-2011, 12:41 AM
your quant gre seems a bit low relative to the rest of your profile (top 10%)... also for more accurate help you could be more precise/objective in describing your profile (top professors in your uni, top 10 phd holders? math courses, up to...? what is/are your major/s?)
im no expert but with a solid gre you seem to have a good chance at those european schools
just my 2c
While this is not false, I do not believe European schools emphasize GREs for screening as much as USA places do. I am confident that Zio will get into all of those universities, though you should expand to a Canadian school and London School of Economics I believe, at least the latter.

University of Patras is a good place, great engineering too. poli kala

_nanashi
01-21-2011, 02:01 AM
akmandal. This isn't econ job rumours, lets try to not to turn this into that god forsaken place.




If you can get GREQ to the 770 range your profile can go anywhere (almost all top schools in europe except may UCL or LSE, Top 15-30 states, top 4 Canada) from the looks of things. Especially in Europe. I would seriously retake.

In reference to europe. no good. He's making the comment european universities in general are no good. I don't necessarily agree, but you'll be at a disadvantage on the north american market if your from a european school. Out of the ones you listed the only ones that has even a shot in the U.S. is stockholm, and even then its pretty rare. Conversely, its much easier for a north american department graduate in the top 1/3rd of departments to get a job in the eu. I'm taking based on your profile you want to go to get a job in the EU afterwards, so its a little less relevant. At the same time the only thing I can see you keeping out of top european departments particularly the ones in UK (UCL, LSE, Oxford, Cambridge) + Toulouse + Tilburg and UPF.

ZIO
01-22-2011, 08:23 PM
You think that my Gre score is so important? My 3-year corporate banking experience is unrelevant?

WorkingHard
01-22-2011, 08:43 PM
You can leverage that experience in financial economics quite a bit probably, but generally speaking (and it is unfortunate) real world experience doesnt help much in academia. Hence the criticisms of academia. You can phrase your experience as having the opportunity to work with applied research and also develop your enthusiasm about the topic area.

ZIO
01-22-2011, 08:58 PM
I'm furious because my work experience won't count probably but the gre score is crucial!!!!!! Unbelievable!!

OneMoreEcon
01-22-2011, 11:29 PM
You shouldn't be furious about work experience not counting and GRE being important. GRE is a semi-useful screening device. Work experience is unrelated to academic research, and the few relevant aspects of work experience are mostly a matter of maturity, such as being able to manage your time efficiently and organizing your research projects.

About the schools, here's the limited advice I can give.

Erasmus - They don't seem to have a PhD program, though they have several masters programs. Erasmus is part of the Tinbergen Institute, which does offer a PhD program. I even double-checked the Erasmus website and found nothing about a PhD in economics, and it would be odd if you applied to TI but thought it was only Erasmus. TI also doesn't seem to offer direct entry to the PhD even for people who hold a masters, so that's again odd for you to mention applying to their PhD. Also, TI openly states on their website that they will not consider applications with a Quantitative GRE score below 750 (see point 2, Tinbergen Institute - Graduate School Admission requirements (http://www.tinbergen.nl/graduate-school/admission-requirements.php)).

Zurich - Does anybody focus on macroeconometrics, which is your stated interest? Zurich is moving towards a US-style PhD program, including core coursework in micro/macro/metrics, but students who enter now are still assigned to a chair (supervisor) upon admission. I get the impression the individual chairs are still largely responsible for interviewing/admitting candidates and supplying funding, which is typical of the older European-style PhDs that are being phased out. Unless your interests appeal to a particular professor, I doubt you'd be admitted.

SSE - I still mix this up with IIES at Stockholm University all the time, so I can't say much.

The other schools, I have no idea. However, your profile does seem pretty strong aside from the GRE, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if you received offers from many/all of the other schools.

As for the general comments about European PhDs, I think there's a great deal of confusion (both here an EJMR). The top 10-20 European schools don't have a problem placing into the US, though not all are being looked at by Harvard and MIT. Also, it is much easier to go from a US PhD to Europe than vice versa. However, there are big selection biases being overlooked. Top European masters students can easily go to good or great US PhD programs if they want, and many do. These people are likely to be successful in US and European markets later on. However, some very bright people prefer to stay in Europe for the PhD because they prefer being in Europe. Some of them are the "stars" from European schools later on in the job market. However, these and others are the same people who will likely still prefer staying in Europe after the PhD, so they don't go on the North American job market or only apply to a limited number of schools (eg. "I'll only go to the US if it's worth giving up my current culture/lifestyle/proximity to family and friends").

This was on another thread, but the comment came up that a 20-30 US school can't place at MIT/Harvard, but a top European school can. That's largely true, but I suspect it has a lot to do with the comments in the previous paragraph. To be more blunt, someone who can get into a top 20-30 US school might get into top 5 European departments. However, it's unlikely these are the same people who end up as stars on the job market. The more likely star is a European who preferred living in France over Boston for the PhD and did micro theory at Toulouse. And those 20-30 schools do occasionally place at top schools. Ohio State and Johns Hopkins have placed at NYU in recent (last 5 or so) years. Iowa State, I think, placed Hickman (not to be confused with Heckman) at Chicago last year. Essentially, the most plausible explanation to me is that the "stars" from Europe are the people who could have gone to top 10 US schools but chose to stay in Europe.

I probably forgot some other points I wanted to make, but this should be good for now. :)

OneMoreEcon
01-22-2011, 11:42 PM
Just to clarify a bit from my previous post about European schools in general. There are two biases working against European schools. First, the top Europeans go to US PhDs after their masters and will be competitive in the US and European job markets. As a result, many US schools placing in top European schools may be sending Europeans back to Europe. These are people who likely would have been stars (in US and Europe) even if they stayed in Europe for the PhD. The other aspect is that similar potential stars who stay in Europe are less likely to go on the US academic job market, since they prefer Europe (which is why they stayed in Europe for the PhD).

I could over-analyze the situation a bit more (and may, if someone wants me to), but there are good reasons why the placement records of European schools understate the training provided by these schools and their potential to place into US schools.

ZIO
01-23-2011, 10:24 AM
One more Econ: My interests are Macroeconomics & Econometrics and not Macroeconometrics. My mistake! The Erasmus University has onlt Phd in Management. That is where I will apply as soon as there is a project open. My ambition is to be accepeted to Stockholm School of Economics. Does anyone knows anything about admissions in SSE?

Psychonomist
01-23-2011, 06:14 PM
ZIO,

the SSE PhD program is quite competitive in that it accepts very few candidates, ie: 8 successful candidates out of 170-180 applications (last year's stats, if I remember correctly). Although the GRE Q score is quite low, I do not know how much importance they place upon it when the rest of the profile is good. However, just keep in mind that probably all the details will count since only a total of 8 people are selected.

_nanashi
01-23-2011, 10:31 PM
I'm furious because my work experience won't count probably but the gre score is crucial!!!!!! Unbelievable!!
It actually makes a lot of sense.

Top programs get 500-1000 applications for 20 seats, GRE scores serve as a greatway to cut down applicants. My experience has also been that while GRE isn't a predictor of success, there are very few people with GRE 770Q or better that are not intelligent.

Work experience usually does very little to say your academic research capability, and your ability to handle Ph.D. coursework. Even if your required to do research for your bank, its not in the same vain as academic research. (Since it takes a few years to publish a paper that is of a few pages in this field.)




This was on another thread, but the comment came up that a 20-30 US school can't place at MIT/Harvard, but a top European school can. That's largely true, but I suspect it has a lot to do with the comments in the previous paragraph. To be more blunt, someone who can get into a top 20-30 US school might get into top 5 European departments. However, it's unlikely these are the same people who end up as stars on the job market. The more likely star is a European who preferred living in France over Boston for the PhD and did micro theory at Toulouse. And those 20-30 schools do occasionally place at top schools. Ohio State and Johns Hopkins have placed at NYU in recent (last 5 or so) years. Iowa State, I think, placed Hickman (not to be confused with Heckman) at Chicago last year. Essentially, the most plausible explanation to me is that the "stars" from Europe are the people who could have gone to top 10 US schools but chose to stay in Europe

I like this comment a lot. I can't say the validity of it, but it would plausibly explain why Canadian departments rarely place into top 20 American departments. Most of the best Canadians go to america for Ph.D.

ZIO
01-24-2011, 04:29 PM
Does anyone knows what a "Taught element of the program" is? I;m supposed to write something for this. Please advise. Psychonomist: Are you sure that only 8 people wer year are accepted? You know what is the average profile of an accepted candidate?thanks

Psychonomist
01-25-2011, 05:54 PM
I assume that the 'taught element' refers to the first two years of the program where you take courses and are examined on them (just like you would in a masters for instance, but probably higher level). This is because they have adopted the American-style PhD system: 2 years coursework + 3 years research.

Yes I am fairly certain; and I say 'fairly' just to point out that if it wasn't 8 it would have been 7 or 9! The website says the program has 35 students in it so 35/5 (years) = 7 students. Also the number of graduating students every year varies between 3 and 8 which confirms the low number of enrollments.

I have no idea what the average profile of an admitted candidate is though unfortunately; you could try to google some of the students who have already graduated and placed, from the list of placements on the website to gauge this...

ZIO
01-25-2011, 07:37 PM
....So there is absolutely no hope for me to get admitted....:(

Psychonomist
01-26-2011, 09:49 PM
8/170 = 4.7% ... this is comparable to most US graduate program admissions statistics - so I guess the probability purely based on the number of applications vs. admittance is similar, wherever you apply. But if you do not apply and do not do your best, then you cannot know if you get admitted. So just go for it!

italos
01-27-2011, 01:45 AM
....So there is absolutely no hope for me to get admitted....:(

Cheer up and think positive!!!!!
I generally do not provide profile evaluations but I think you will make it in some of the schools you are applying to. Remember to diversify and add more schools in your list.I know that your school places well in the top US program in recent years particularly after Angelatos and it has a good reputation in Europe as well. So why not another one placement for you this year??????