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taka_sukunami
11-14-2007, 05:22 PM
Some universities hold grad school recruitment fairs and things like that...

But do schools send out application forms/letters to students that they are interested in?

Olm
11-15-2007, 05:16 AM
I've heard of schools go after students that didn't even apply to them. One of my friends was given a full-ride bells and whistles offer to a tier 2 school... he turned it down and went to a tier 1 (for a PhD in economics, just to make sure we're on the same page). I'm not sure how often it happens, but I know it does occur.

As for "sending out applications"... this is the age of the internet. You'll be applying online pretty much everywhere.

TruDog
11-15-2007, 05:05 PM
This is typically the case at lower-tier schools. Top-30 schools don't typically have to recruit students...the students will come to them.

taka_sukunami
11-15-2007, 06:32 PM
This is typically the case at lower-tier schools. Top-30 schools don't typically have to recruit students...the students will come to them.

TruDog, I see your point, but how would you explain this:

Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences (http://www.gsas.harvard.edu/prospective_students/recruitment_schedule.php)

Mr.Keen
11-15-2007, 07:34 PM
Olm: I am still confused about the whole tier thing. Last time I checked, tier 1 included the top 6 schools, while tier two included schools 7-15. Was that your friend's case? I find it hard to believe that schools in the 7-15 rank would have to recruit.

Some top business schools do hold, or attend, recruiting events for their PhD programs (e.g. Stern, Kellogg, Chicago GSB, Sloan).

kartelite
11-15-2007, 07:39 PM
Olm: I am still confused about the whole tier thing. Last time I checked, tier 1 included the top 6 schools, while tier two included schools 7-15.

Where on earth did you "check" that? Tier 1 generally just means "very competitive programs," IMO probably somewhere between 30-40 on US News you start getting into easier admissions standards. I believe they divide their undergrad rankings into about 50 schools per tier.

The way you've got it, there would be 11th tier, 12th tier, etc. schools. Just as an example, I'd put a school like Duke as a top tier school, and a school like NC State as a second tier--still has mostly top 10 educated profs and tough course load, but a bit easier to get accepted.

Mr.Keen
11-15-2007, 07:46 PM
Where on earth did you "check" that? Tier 1 generally just means "very competitive programs," IMO probably somewhere between 30-40 on US News you start getting into easier admissions standards. I believe they divide their undergrad rankings into about 50 schools per tier.

The way you've got it, there would be 11th tier, 12th tier, etc. schools. Just as an example, I'd put a school like Duke as a top tier school, and a school like NC State as a second tier--still has mostly top 10 educated profs and tough course load, but a bit easier to get accepted.

I agree, and that is the reason I said I am confused about the whole tier thing. The place on earth where I checked that was an article published in the American Economic Review, you know, that little insignificant journal where everybody can publish.

Stock, Wendy A., T. Aldrich Finegan, and John J. Siegfried. 2006. "Attrition in Economics Ph.D. Programs." American Economic Review, 96 (2), pp. 458-466

YoungEconomist
11-15-2007, 07:48 PM
Some universities hold grad school recruitment fairs and things like that...

But do schools send out application forms/letters to students that they are interested in?

I can't wait until economics get's like college/pro basketball/football with recruiting like crazy.

People will be scouting 8th graders in math classes offering funding for their PhD programs.;)

kartelite
11-15-2007, 09:48 PM
The place on earth where I checked that was an article published in the American Economic Review, you know, that little insignificant journal where everybody can publish.


You're right, I remember seeing those now that you mention it...but I don't think that's generally what people mean by "top tier," obviously the people at AER are mostly from top schools and probably get some satisfaction by "distancing themselves" if you know I mean.

commodore
11-15-2007, 11:06 PM
You're right, I remember seeing those now that you mention it...but I don't think that's generally what people mean by "top tier," obviously the people at AER are mostly from top schools and probably get some satisfaction by "distancing themselves" if you know I mean.

fyi, the authors of that article are from Montana State and Vanderbilt (both Finegan and Siegfried). I doubt they're the high and mighty types you would expect.

kartelite
11-16-2007, 12:08 AM
fyi, the authors of that article are from Montana State and Vanderbilt (both Finegan and Siegfried). I doubt they're the high and mighty types you would expect.

In that case I guess my cynicism was misguided.

Olm
11-16-2007, 01:39 AM
Olm: I am still confused about the whole tier thing. Last time I checked, tier 1 included the top 6 schools, while tier two included schools 7-15. Was that your friend's case? I find it hard to believe that schools in the 7-15 rank would have to recruit.

Some top business schools do hold, or attend, recruiting events for their PhD programs (e.g. Stern, Kellogg, Chicago GSB, Sloan).

I am using "tier" arbitrarily. I divide the tiers by placement. Tier 1 = top 20 schools or so, where you can go pretty much anywhere upon graduation if your research is good. Tier 2 = schools ranked 21-50, where initial placement in the top 20 schools is much more difficult. Tier 3 and above, well with a PhD from there, good luck getting a good job at a research university.

signal08
11-16-2007, 02:03 AM
TruDog, I see your point, but how would you explain this:

Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences (http://www.gsas.harvard.edu/prospective_students/recruitment_schedule.php)

yup Harvard came to my school for "recruiting." it was at a grad school fair, and not really recruiting per se... i think it was just an advertising/pr stunt-- lots of brochures, pamphlets, informational chats, but no applications were given out.

ekonomiks
11-16-2007, 03:54 AM
These informational sessions are so freakin' useless... it's unbelievable.

taka_sukunami
11-16-2007, 05:43 AM
yup Harvard came to my school for "recruiting." it was at a grad school fair, and not really recruiting per se... i think it was just an advertising/pr stunt-- lots of brochures, pamphlets, informational chats, but no applications were given out.

Thanks for sharing this signal08.

Baffling - why would they spend money, time and effort organizing such things if they're not going to get anything out of it? Don't really think they need any more advertising...they're Hahhhhvaad after all...

Luckykid
11-16-2007, 05:56 AM
I like to think UW-Milwaukee is in the first tier so I can feel better about myself....By extending the first tier all the way down to the school you are attending, in most cases it maximizes personal utility of the tier system.

Roy

IntEcon80
11-16-2007, 03:15 PM
I am using "tier" arbitrarily. I divide the tiers by placement. Tier 1 = top 20 schools or so, where you can go pretty much anywhere upon graduation if your research is good. Tier 2 = schools ranked 21-50, where initial placement in the top 20 schools is much more difficult. Tier 3 and above, well with a PhD from there, good luck getting a good job at a research university.

oh wow i never knew that if you get a PhD from a school ranked 51 and up you will have a hard time getting a job at a research university. What about your dissertation topic? Not everyone who went to the top schools have some good dissertation topics, some are just bad ......Although the rank of the school is important, I thought that your job market paper is really the deciding factor

GymShorts
11-16-2007, 04:03 PM
I am using "tier" arbitrarily. I divide the tiers by placement. Tier 1 = top 20 schools or so, where you can go pretty much anywhere upon graduation if your research is good. Tier 2 = schools ranked 21-50, where initial placement in the top 20 schools is much more difficult. Tier 3 and above, well with a PhD from there, good luck getting a good job at a research university.

This depends on what you consider a good job and a research university. For example, Rice University (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/%7Eecon/grad/index.html#4), ranked 75 according to econphd.net, has placements at:

Indiana University
University of Wyoming
University of Texas (Arlington)
University of Florida
University of Mississippi
Tulane University
California Institute of TechnologyNo, these are not top 20 schools, except arguably CalTech in some areas, but they do publish research actively. Some of these programs aren't PhD-granting institutions either, but neither is Dartmouth.

macroeconomicus
11-16-2007, 05:48 PM
This depends on what you consider a good job and a research university. For example, Rice University (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/%7Eecon/grad/index.html#4), ranked 75 according to econphd.net, has placements at:
Indiana University
University of Wyoming
University of Texas (Arlington)
University of Florida
University of Mississippi
Tulane University
California Institute of TechnologyNo, these are not top 20 schools, except arguably CalTech in some areas, but they do publish research actively. Some of these programs aren't PhD-granting institutions either, but neither is Dartmouth.

They had placements at U of Missouri and UC San Diego a couple of years ago.

Olm
11-16-2007, 11:07 PM
oh wow i never knew that if you get a PhD from a school ranked 51 and up you will have a hard time getting a job at a research university. What about your dissertation topic? Not everyone who went to the top schools have some good dissertation topics, some are just bad ......Although the rank of the school is important, I thought that your job market paper is really the deciding factor

Sorry, I guess I should have qualified research university as a "good" research university. Obviously, unless the school is a teaching school, pretty much your entire academic staff will be producing research.

Job market paper IS a sample of your research, as is your disseration. Good research means good initial/future placement.