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Zymonick
02-19-2008, 10:04 PM
Hey everybody,

I just got an informal offer for admission and stating that I will receive a support of 30.000$ plus tuition and health care.

Now I read in the sticky thread that this will be reliable to taxes. Can anyone please tell me how much this would be approximately in the States?

I am asking here, because I need to make a decision about another offer soon and as an international student I have no knowledge about taxes in the States at all.

Thank you very much!

Andronicus
02-19-2008, 10:11 PM
What school? $30K sounds fantastic!

Taxes vary, but I think typically at lower income levels about a quarter to one third of your income goes to various taxes (Federal Income, Social Security, Medicare, State Income). Not all states have state income taxes, but those that don't often have higher sales taxes or property taxes.

Olm
02-19-2008, 10:15 PM
Taxes shouldn't be affecting your decision, as you will pay taxes on your support no matter where you go (in North America, at least). In fact, that should be one of the last things on your priority list. You should be worried about going to the highest ranked school as possible that has faculty members that specialize in the field you're interested in.

Let us know the schools you go into and the offers, and we'll be able to help you.

And just so you know, $30k is a metric ton of support - the average most schools offer is about half that.

dr_Shpak
02-19-2008, 11:14 PM
30 $ congrats ! what school (something in california ? :))

TruDog
02-19-2008, 11:18 PM
I've never heard of an offer better than $25,000, and most schools are in the $15,000 to $20,000 range. Holy cow!

Zymonick
02-20-2008, 01:08 AM
Thanks for your answers. One third to a quarter sound crazy... I thought America is the country of capitalism. However I did not realize that 30k is so amazing. So far it is the only offer for a PhD in the States, I have not heard back from all the other Universities. However at the moment I am rather considering whether I don't want to stay in Europe and if I even want to do a PhD. Unfortunately I need to decide about an interesting alternative really soon.

It is in Illinois and health insurance is also provided. Does this allow you to give me a more precise estimation of my expected net income, please? Yes I know I shouldn't, but I have my reasons to care about the money...

Now I guess the place allows you to guess the school :)

Thanks again for your help.

AstralTraveller
02-20-2008, 02:02 AM
It is in Illinois and health insurance is also provided. Does this allow you to give me a more precise estimation of my expected net income, please? Yes I know I shouldn't, but I have my reasons to care about the money...

Now I guess the place allows you to guess the school :)

Now, come on, it is either Northwestern or Chicago, probably one of the Business School programs, given the figures you provided...it really doesn't sound like UIUC

Please, spill it over! I'm dying with anxiety. :wacko:

Nalfien
02-20-2008, 02:10 AM
As an international student your taxes are determined based on the treaty your country has with America. Generally on 30k Americans should expect to pay between 10 and 15% annually if on a fellowship and a bit more when you add in Social Security if you are TAing for the money.

Also at top schools 30 is becoming the norm for those fortunate enough to get in...

Trapped In an EW Box
02-20-2008, 05:25 AM
What are Yale stipends like?

Olm
02-20-2008, 06:00 AM
24 grand or so is my guess, probably more.

Zymonick
02-20-2008, 09:54 AM
Thank you very much Nalfien. I will find information about tax agreements with my country, but given our good relationship I cannot imagine being much higher than that of Americans. Whatsover 10-15% seems really low, which is very reassuring.

I didn't intend this to become a topic about my offer, though I should have expected it. However, since you helped me so nicely, it is MECS at Kellogg's.

AstralTraveller
02-20-2008, 11:56 AM
Thank you very much Nalfien. I will find information about tax agreements with my country, but given our good relationship I cannot imagine being much higher than that of Americans. Whatsover 10-15% seems really low, which is very reassuring.

I didn't intend this to become a topic about my offer, though I should have expected it. However, since you helped me so nicely, it is MECS at Kellogg's.

Congratulations! A super program, indeed....

The stipend you got should definitely be enough for a living, even after taxes are deducted (unless you are going there married, or with kids, or both...in which case you are probably better off than with most other econ departments anyway).

What a super admit!! :tup:

Olm
02-20-2008, 01:19 PM
Thank you for finally spilling the beans. Mmmm, beans. And congrats :)

YAHA
02-20-2008, 05:58 PM
Thanks for your answers. One third to a quarter sound crazy... I thought America is the country of capitalism. However I did not realize that 30k is so amazing. So far it is the only offer for a PhD in the States, I have not heard back from all the other Universities. However at the moment I am rather considering whether I don't want to stay in Europe and if I even want to do a PhD. Unfortunately I need to decide about an interesting alternative really soon.

It is in Illinois and health insurance is also provided. Does this allow you to give me a more precise estimation of my expected net income, please? Yes I know I shouldn't, but I have my reasons to care about the money...

Now I guess the place allows you to guess the school :)

Thanks again for your help.

As an international student, you are not required to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes. In case you accept the offer, make sure you are only subtracted the Federal and State Income Tax. With 30000 a year, you ll probably pay around 15-17%. If you go about it the right way, you will be getting that back every April.

Nalfien
02-20-2008, 06:50 PM
What are Yale stipends like?

We just got an email last week telling us that starting next year the minimum package will be 30k over 12 months for everyone. The grad school gives 25k and the department gives an additional reward, usually 5k but it goes up for top candidates. It allows us to live very, very comfortably in New Haven.

Edit: I forgot to add that of course we get tuition remission and health insurance...

econphilomath
02-20-2008, 07:00 PM
Wow, compare to NYU


Salary in New Haven CT:
$20,000
Comparable salary in New York (Manhattan) NY:
$33,707.83

If you move from New Haven CT to New York (Manhattan) NY...

Groceries will cost: 27.321% more
Housing will cost: 163.101% more
Utilities will cost: 16.785% more
Transportation will cost: 7.436% more
Healthcare will cost: 5.254% more

Olm
02-20-2008, 07:21 PM
NYU gives you subsidized housing.

israelecon
02-20-2008, 07:27 PM
these living costs in manhattan, don't, of course, take in to account the greatly increased utility you get from living in an amazing city that has everything as opposed to living in a dump like new haven.

econphilomath
02-20-2008, 08:13 PM
these living costs in manhattan, don't, of course, take in to account the greatly increased utility you get from living in an amazing city that has everything as opposed to living in a dump like new haven.


Of course not, because that depends on your own utility function, not objective prices. I have a small child to take care of and Manhattan is more like a dump if its for raising a family.

BTW, I wonder if you have been in New Haven before?

econorama
02-20-2008, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by econphilomath:
I have a small child to take care of and Manhattan is more like a dump if its for raising a family. I respectfully disagree. I was raised in Manhattan and Brooklyn, and I'd much sooner raise a kid there than in New Haven. (Yes I've been to New Haven.) As a child in New York I went to terrific (public) schools, museums, Broadway and Off-Broadway shows, and concerts. There are at least three children's museums, several children's theaters, and an entire magazine devoted to children's events (Time Out New York Kids.) And of course if you like green things, there's Central Park.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with raising a kid in New Haven, I'm just saying that there's a lot right with raising a kid in New York. And it's definitely not a dump.

israelecon
02-20-2008, 08:42 PM
Of course not, because that depends on your own utility function, not objective prices. I have a small child to take care of and Manhattan is more like a dump if its for raising a family.

BTW, I wonder if you have been in New Haven before?

thats true, i was talking about my utility function. and if you have kids manhattan isn't exactly ideal. but if not i think its a once in life time opportunity that may be worth more than a few thousand dollars in stipends.
I myself have not been to new haven, but my father did his phd in economics in yale and he said when he was there (about 30 years ago) it was a dump (and his apartment was robbed twice). i hear new haven has improved though, but still nothing compares with nyc in my opinion.

econphilomath
02-20-2008, 08:44 PM
thats true, i was talking about my utility function. and if you have kids manhattan isn't exactly ideal. but if not i think its a once in life time opportunity that may be worth more than a few thousand dollars in stipends.
I myself have not been to new haven, but my father did his phd in economics in yale and he said when he was there (about 30 years ago) it was a dump (and his apartment was robbed twice). i hear new haven has improved though, but still nothing compares with nyc in my opinion.

LOL :D Ok thats a good reason to call it a dump I guess!

I have a friend there and from what I gather from him, its not that bad at all.

buckykatt
02-20-2008, 10:17 PM
I'm familiar with both NYC and New Haven, so here's my two cents: New Haven has everyting NYC has, but less of it. This goes for both the good and the bad. You can take in a symphony or an opera in New Haven, or you can walk down to Toad's Place and see the cool band that all the kids are raving about this week. There's dancing of all kinds. There's good food. Etc. There's also crime--good parts of town and not-as-good parts of town--just as there is in NYC or any other city.

IMHO, though, New Haven has two clear advantages:

1. As already mentioned, the cost of living is much lower in New Haven. (CT is expensive relative to many parts of the country, but New Haven is not Greenwich, Stamford, or Norwalk.)

2. If you do have a family, it's quite feasible to live outside of New Haven proper in one of the many nearby scenic communities with great schools. (Think of the fictional Stars Hollow on Gilmore Girls.) You would *not* want to commute the same distance into NYC every day! This might even be an attractive option for someone who's single, though I wouldn't do this in my first two years.

Since you really should be studying while you're in grad school, IMHO New Haven has more than "enough" of the good things to distract you as much as you should be distracted. I don't want to call either place a "dump", but all else equal I'd choose New Haven over NYC in a heartbeat.

israelecon
02-20-2008, 10:32 PM
I'm familiar with both NYC and New Haven, so here's my two cents: New Haven has everyting NYC has, but less of it. This goes for both the good and the bad. You can take in a symphony or an opera in New Haven,

its not just that there are more things in nyc quantitatively, it is qualitative too.
clearly you are not a big classical music fan because if you were you would not be comparing concerts and operas in new haven to those in nyc.

1) if you get they same enjoyment from listening to the NY philharmonic and the new haven orchestra (or whatever they have there), you might as well just save the money on the ticket and listen to a CD.
2) about operas: in nyc there are two rep opera houses (city opera, and the met) which means they put on an opera every day as opposed to what they may have in new haven which would be an opera every once in a while. not to mention the quality. if hearing world class singers is the same for you as hearing bad singers, then again i say stay home and listen to a CD instead.

The point is since nyc is the center of the world for many things, it has things that other places do too, but it has the best of those things and much much more. this also gives it a whole different atmosphere than a place like new haven.
obviously if what you are going to do all day is sit in your room and study than location makes no difference, but thats not what i plan on doing anyway.

pevdoki1
02-20-2008, 10:40 PM
Check crime statistics on New Haven, Connecticut (CT) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news, sex offenders (http://www.city-data.com/city/New-Haven-Connecticut.html) with New York, New York (NY) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news, sex offenders (http://www.city-data.com/city/New-York-New-York.html)

The latest national crime index in New Haven: 756.7 (WAAAAAY above U.S. average).. There should be more recent data somewhere, but I'm too lazy too look.

In New York City, the crime index is much better (about the average).

I have heard on more than one occasion from real people that New Haven is a dump. I've never been there, however.

israelecon
02-20-2008, 10:44 PM
thanks pevdoki1, finally someone agrees with me!

buckykatt
02-20-2008, 10:59 PM
We may just have to agree to disagree on this one, israelecon, but let me make one more observation: if being able to hear the NY Philharmonic is of supreme importance to you, it's easy to take a trip from New Haven into NYC to do so. (If you don't have a car, Metro North will get you there. Hartford and Boston are also nearby, though not as feasible without a car.) Assuming that studying will still take up the bulk of your time, that's a very workable compromise.

Meanwhile, some things that NYC does *not* have at the same level of quality are fresh air, clean streets, parks, scenic countryside, beaches, nice places to run or skate, sailing, etc. If, as I do, you value those things highly, NYC is not unambiguously better.

BTW, the "whatever they have there" is the NHSO (http://newhavensymphony.com/about_us.htm).

Mr.Keen
02-20-2008, 11:03 PM
Oh dear Lord! Talk about derailing a thread.

israelecon
02-20-2008, 11:07 PM
obviously no place dominates all others in every dimension and i wouldn't want to live there for the rest of my life. i just think that its a great experience for a few years, and its an opportunity that will pretty surely never appear again.

israelecon
02-20-2008, 11:09 PM
btw, the yale's orchestra is supposed to be excellent.

Mr.Keen
02-20-2008, 11:09 PM
I'd much rather live in NYC as a young assistant professor than as a poor, extremely busy grad student. Then again, if you are well-off financially there might not be a difference.

buckykatt
02-20-2008, 11:10 PM
obviously no place dominates all others in every dimension and i wouldn't want to live there for the rest of my life. i just think that its a great experience for a few years, and its an opportunity that will pretty surely never appear again.

That's a good point. I've considered applying to a few big city schools as reaches for just that reason: I wouldn't want to live in a big city, but it might be an interesting experience for a few years.

pevdoki1
02-20-2008, 11:10 PM
Hm, yeah, I doubt that you'll get much of the NYC experience as a grad student. Maybe if you're getting a master's in film or something, but an Econ PhD?.... Nah :)

israelecon
02-20-2008, 11:11 PM
a young assistant professor is often much busier than a grad student, because he has a lot of pressure to publish articles quickly.

buckykatt
02-20-2008, 11:11 PM
Oh dear Lord! Talk about derailing a thread.

True. Maybe a moderator can move these to a new thread called "the best place to live during grad school". Lord knows we need things to talk about in between checking email every 5 minutes...

Mr.Keen
02-20-2008, 11:12 PM
a young assistant professor is often much busier than a grad student, because he has a lot of pressure to publish articles quickly.

But the schedule is way more flexible for an assistant professor than for a grad student.

israelecon
02-20-2008, 11:16 PM
i actually think that as a grad student i will have a lot more spare time than as an undergrad.
i won't be taking 7 courses per semester, the grades won't mean as much, and no econ grad course requires nearly as much work as a serious rigorous math course (of which i now take 3-4 per semester as a math major). so after finishing a double major in math-econ in 2.5 years, i actually am looking forward to a decreased workload next year.

(maybe just wishful thinking)

Zymonick
02-21-2008, 12:17 AM
I really wonder how this thread could become a discussion about life quality in New Heaven in comparison to New York. :rolleyes: If you were discussing at least Chicago...

AstralTraveller
02-21-2008, 08:39 PM
I really wonder how this thread could become a discussion about life quality in New Heaven in comparison to New York. :rolleyes: If you were discussing at least Chicago...

It's true. Especially since the OP is going to Evanston :p

Nalfien
02-21-2008, 09:06 PM
I'm familiar with both NYC and New Haven, so here's my two cents: New Haven has everyting NYC has, but less of it

I was actually born and raised in NYC and only left it for undergrad and now for graduate school to.... New Haven.

I think Bucks comment is a very true and concise summary. New Haven today is VERY different from the New Haven of even a decade ago. Living in New Haven is actually pretty nice, it is big enough to have lots of distractions if you want and small enough that you can walk around all of downtown in a few hours. As a first year I can't say that I've had the opportunity to try out lots of the different things around here but so far anytime my classmates and I go out we have a good time at a different restaurant every time. Also New Haven is nice in that it allows us to really stretch our stipends. Most of us are able to pad our savings accounts while being able to have our own apartments and cater to our consumerist whims every once in a while. Personally I'm looking forward to buying a projector if/when I pass the comps.

So all in all I would recommend looking at the school over the location. New Haven allows you to be between NYC and Boston and so in the later years if you want to hang out there on the weekends it's not too hard.

I'll probably have a more substantive post about Yale and New Haven when they release the admissions but a seminar is about to start...

buckykatt
02-21-2008, 11:45 PM
I'll probably have a more substantive post about Yale and New Haven when they release the admissions

Please do! The way their web site is written, the department sounds cold and unforgiving. It doesn't give me the warm fuzzies the way, say, Minnesota's site does... I'm curious how well that perception matches the actual experience of studying there. (I'm guessing, maybe not at all!)

Olm
02-22-2008, 04:26 AM
so after finishing a double major in math-econ in 2.5 years

You're already in a bunch of schools... there is no more use stroking your epeen. SERIOUSLY. Stop it. :yuck:

econphilomath
02-22-2008, 12:08 PM
Please do! The way their web site is written, the department sounds cold and unforgiving. It doesn't give me the warm fuzzies the way, say, Minnesota's site does... I'm curious how well that perception matches the actual experience of studying there. (I'm guessing, maybe not at all!)


LOL, I get the same feeling from checking out the web pages!

Fly-outs is a great time to get a direct impression but first I need multiple admits for it to be meaningful, and some $$ for the trip...

So far the warm fuzzies are calling me, and I'm only happy to oblige!