Advice for application (with profile)

[alwaysthinking]

Hi all,

 

I am 25 years old, and currently working for a top 10 economic consulting firm doing research and analysis on health outcomes. I graduated from a top LAC in 2008, majoring in economics with a minor in mathematics.

 

While initially interested in law school, I've been drawn to the more academic options over the past couple of years, and have decided that an economics PhD is the route for me. However, since my undergraduate record isn't impressive for the programs I would like to get into, I am debating whether to apply this fall for next years class, or another year and apply next fall. In the meantime, I would take additional courses (at the Harvard Extension school) to help boost my profile.

 

I'd also love some advice on what kind of schools I should be aiming for, given my profile.

 

PROFILE:

Type of Undergrad: BS in Economics/ minor in Math at top LAC

Undergrad GPA: 3.75/4.0 (Cum Laude, Phi Beta Kappa)

Major GPA: 3.81/4.0

GRE: Not taken yet

Math Courses: Calc I+II (A), Multivariable Calculus (A), Differential Equations (A+), Probability (B+), Game Theory (A), Introduction to Abstraction (an introductory proofs class, A-)

Econ Courses: Intro Macro (A+), Intermediate Macro (A+), Intermediate Micro (A), Statistics (B), Econometrics (A), International Macro (A), Corporate Finance (B, had a personal issue before the sole exam, and messed up badly) , Game Theory (B+), Accounting (A-), Senior Thesis (A), Economics of Financial Markets (graduate level, Harvard Extension, on course for an A)

Other Courses: 4 Physics courses

Letters of Recommendation: 2 econ professors (1 kind of well known, the other not so well known) and 1 math professor

Research Experience: My senior thesis, written on the yen carry trade and its continued existence in violation of the UIP condition. No real hope of getting it published, as the professor I wrote it with is a finance professor, and he admitted I taught him everything he knows about the subject. Conducting health economics research at my current job, and will be co-author for a paper on econometric analysis of the link between a skin disease and joint pain (my manager tells me this will bring about a huge change in the way people think about the disease).

Teaching Experience: Teaching assistant for introductory micro and macro, also for introductory physics

Research Interests: International Macroeconomics, and Industrial Organization

On a side note, I missed most of my sophomore year (out fall semester, 2 courses winter semester) due to a health issue, a combination of migraines and anxiety. I actually had a migraine during my Stats final, which goes some way toward explaining a B in that class but an A in econometrics. Would you mention this at all in an application?

 

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for your advice!

[Golden Rule]

I think you have the top grades in the core intermediate core courses and math courses, so that's good. I might doubt to some extent your ability to handle more theoretical math courses based on your B-grades in Game Theory, Prob, & Stats. So maybe you'd benefit from taking real analysis in the fall, but I don't see what benefit there would be waiting until Fall 2011 to apply (you'd get your fall grade in time for the next cycle). Does Harvard extension school offer real analysis? I knew some Fed RAs who took it at MIT, and some who took it at UMass-Boston.

 

A key point, more important than courses, will be convince your LOR writers that you're capable of doing the kind of independent research that's necessary for the PhD level. I'm not sure to what extent you've already done this based on your description of your research. Just the fact that you've done research isn't interesting. Tons of people get "co-authored papers" with their bosses where they weren't the primary source of the idea, and even if you were, it might not be good. Are you capable of the kind of research that'll get into top journals? Will your writers be able to communicate that credibly? Good luck.

[alwaysthinking]

Thanks for the advice!

 

Harvard Extension School does offer a course entitled Linear Algebra and Real Analysis I, the course description for which seems similar to that for the Real Analysis course at my school. I've e-mailed the professor for further details.

 

It appears I'd been thinking about research experience incorrectly. I wasn't the primary source of the idea for the health economics paper, though I worked mostly independently on the analysis, with occasional input from the manager. For my thesis, my professor gave me the initial idea, but all the ideas and analysis in the paper was done independently, as the professor did not know anything about the topic other than that it sounded interesting.

[Golden Rule]

Ok, I mean it all depends on your letter writer sells you. Berkeley looks for "Evidence of motivation and aptitude for research judged primarily on the basis of the letters of recommendation" and "Proven independent research ability" and "Very strong letters of recommendations from at least two faculty members who know the candidate in both classroom and out-of-class settings (e.g. independent research)." Harvard says, "Creativity is demonstrated primarily through work on the honors thesis and other research, the quality of which is relayed again through professor recommendations." So can your professors sell you as being creative? That's all that matters. Make sure you can convince them of that.

[alwaysthinking]

Thanks again for the replies, Golden Rule. I was wondering if you had any advice for what schools I should realistically be looking at getting into, realizing that places like Harvard and MIT would be reach schools as best.

[dreck]

Thanks again for the replies, Golden Rule. I was wondering if you had any advice for what schools I should realistically be looking at getting into, realizing that places like Harvard and MIT would be reach schools as best.

 

If your letter-writers really sell your research potential, then you probably have a shot at Harvard and MIT. Taking advanced math at Harvard Extension will help too. If you have the financial resources, I would apply to a very large array of schools ranked in the top 30 (i.e. the top 5, several top 15, a few 15-30). Have a look at the field rankings to determine which schools outside the top 10 you should apply to, given your interests. Also, ask the professors who are writing your letters where you should apply. They know what they're writing, so might have better advice.

[tm_member]

If your letter-writers really sell your research potential, then you probably have a shot at Harvard and MIT. Taking advanced math at Harvard Extension will help too. If you have the financial resources, I would apply to a very large array of schools ranked in the top 30 (i.e. the top 5, several top 15, a few 15-30). Have a look at the field rankings to determine which schools outside the top 10 you should apply to, given your interests. Also, ask the professors who are writing your letters where you should apply. They know what they're writing, so might have better advice.

 

Whoa, hold on a second here, this forum is valuable only because it gives honest advice... and to be honest, the profile I see is not top10 material... B's in Game Theory, Stats, and Probability, and stating 'Corporate Finance' and 'Accounting' as econ courses ring alarm bells for me. The OP has a good GPA from a good school, and has a good shot at top30 schools but not the top10. The OP could squeeze into the top 10 with good grades in more math classes and a great GRE.

 

EDIT: I don't want to infer that that is all the OP needs to get into a top10, just that that is the bare minimum. LORs will come into play after those necessary conditions are met. But from the sounds of the OP's post, they may not all be very strong.

Edited May 4, 2010 by tm_member

[bonbon]

Does Harvard extension school offer real analysis? I knew some Fed RAs who took it at MIT, and some who took it at UMass-Boston.

 

Goldren Rule, do you know how to ask to take classes at MIT? Like, who should I contact at MIT if I just want to take individual classes without getting any degree. I work full-time but I think I can ask for a few hours away from work every week to attend classes. Thanks.

[dreck]

Whoa, hold on a second here, this forum is valuable only because it gives honest advice... and to be honest, the profile I see is not top10 material... B's in Game Theory, Stats, and Probability, and stating 'Corporate Finance' and 'Accounting' as econ courses ring alarm bells for me. The OP has a good GPA from a good school, and has a good shot at top30 schools but not the top10. The OP could squeeze into the top 10 with good grades in more math classes and a great GRE.

 

EDIT: I don't want to infer that that is all the OP needs to get into a top10, just that that is the bare minimum. LORs will come into play after those necessary conditions are met. But from the sounds of the OP's post, they may not all be very strong.

 

Hmm...maybe you're right. I was thinking the applicant could explain away the low grades and use research experience to gain a leg up. Maybe you're right, I'm definitely not an expert...but I also know plenty of examples of people with less-than-super grade records getting in because they demonstrate stellar research potential and get great LORs, so I don't think it's correct to list those as necessary conditions. My intention was to imply that research potential--actual demonstrated and as vouched for by LOR-writers--is the angle that could put the OP in the top 10. I did mention that advanced math is important, and that he/she should take more if possible.

 

I also mentioned that the OP should ask his letter-writers where to apply. That advice will be far more valuable than guesswork on this forum.

[alwaysthinking]

Whoa, hold on a second here, this forum is valuable only because it gives honest advice... and to be honest, the profile I see is not top10 material... B's in Game Theory, Stats, and Probability, and stating 'Corporate Finance' and 'Accounting' as econ courses ring alarm bells for me. The OP has a good GPA from a good school, and has a good shot at top30 schools but not the top10. The OP could squeeze into the top 10 with good grades in more math classes and a great GRE.

 

EDIT: I don't want to infer that that is all the OP needs to get into a top10, just that that is the bare minimum. LORs will come into play after those necessary conditions are met. But from the sounds of the OP's post, they may not all be very strong.

 

Tm_guru, Corporate Finance and Accounting were considered electives for the economics major at my school. Would it be better if I did not mention them in my eventual application?

 

With regards to B's, I wasn't able to complete my Stats final because of a migraine, which messed up my grade entirely. For Game Theory, the B+ in was in the economics course; I had a hard time getting along with a professor, as whenever I asked about the mathematical foundations of the theories and concepts, he would persistently shrug it off as 'not relevant to the course'. That is why I took the mathematics course in Game Theory later, and aced the course, as it provided me with the both the theory and application. I am expecting to include this mini-story in my SoP.

 

Thank you for the advice irrespective. My undergrad didn't go as well as I would have liked, and I'm looking for avenues (such as the Extension school classes) to rectify that as best I can.

[alwaysthinking]

Goldren Rule, do you know how to ask to take classes at MIT? Like, who should I contact at MIT if I just want to take individual classes without getting any degree. I work full-time but I think I can ask for a few hours away from work every week to attend classes. Thanks.

 

Hi bonbon, I was actually looking into that myself. Here are a couple of helpful links:

 

Graduate Policies and Procedures: Admission & Registration: Student Status (Click on Special Student)

 

MIT Course Catalog: Costs (At the end of the first page, you can see the cost for taking a course)

 

Special Student Registration: MIT Office of the Registrar

[bonbon]

For Game Theory, the B+ in was in the economics course; I had a hard time getting along with a professor, as whenever I asked about the mathematical foundations of the theories and concepts, he would persistently shrug it off as 'not relevant to the course'. That is why I took the mathematics course in Game Theory later, and aced the course, as it provided me with the both the theory and application. I am expecting to include this mini-story in my SoP.rectify that as best I can.

 

I can totally relate to you, especially because you are from a LAC too. LAC has the advantage of small class size and knowing your profs, but it can also be a disadvantage if for some reasons a prof doesn't like you (like in your case, because you questioned things they don't care about - and sometimes, econ profs at LAC don't care about the math background and are quite subjective). Each class is sometimes only taught by that one professor however, and you don't really have a choice. If you don't do well there, then what? Should it be mentioned in the SoP that the prof was subjective? Or I guess not... Such a hard situation.

[bonbon]

alwaysthinking, Thank you...so much!!