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Thread: Profile Evaluation Request: Inter. Bus. / Org Behavior (older applicant)

  1. #1
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    Profile Evaluation Request: Inter. Bus. / Org Behavior (older applicant)

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    Hi All,

    I am planning to apply for a PhD program in either International Business or Organizational Behavior for fall of 2013 admission. I will require full funding to attend. My basic profile:

    2012 GRE: 320 combined (165 Verbal, 155 Quant)
    Undergraduate degree from mid-tier State U
    Undergraduate GPA 3.7 (liberal arts major, social sciences minor)
    Juris Doctor degree from top tier State U
    Class Rank: top half (forced curve)
    14+ years of international legal experience
    One or two minor publications
    U.S. native-born citizen
    Age = 41

    As I see it, my two biggest weaknesses are (1) GRE quant score, and (2) age (well, ageism is illegal, so let's call it "perceived fit"). To rectify the quant problem, I plan to enroll in a series of advanced math courses beginning next month (advanced calc, linear algebra, stats).

    I plan to apply to 6 or 7 schools, maybe one or two in the lower top tier, the remainder 2nd tier. While any general comments are welcome, I'd appreciate any feedback on the following:

    1. Would it be a waste of time for me to apply to programs with average GMAT scores of 700 and above? My GRE result translates to 690 (according to ETS) but my quant is painfully low... and I'm an old dude, ha.
    2. Should I be reasonably confident of a funded acceptance offer from at least one 2nd tier program?
    3. Is it better for me to request letters of recommendation from my undergrad liberal arts professors, or should I rely on past supervisors (non-academic) and community college math instructors (non-tenured, maybe not even with PhD...) from the courses I'll be taking this year? My undergrad letters of recommendation for law school were glowing, but some of my previous profs may even be retired now.

    Many thanks!!

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    So that's about a 710 gmat (good) but 96th V 69th Q split (better if that was flipped... but OK) (going by percentiles).

    "well, ageism is illegal, so let's call it "perceived fit")" Is it illegal in admissions?

    I plan to apply to 6 or 7 schools
    You might want to double that; there was a thread around about people with a total shut-out at 700+


    1. Would it be a waste of time for me to apply to programs with average GMAT scores of 700 and above?
    Not at all. As Roy Suddaby said: There's no doubt that facility with language is directly linked to ability to build theory.

    In OB I would argue that V is more important than Q; we have easily understood software packages for statistics... no device can overcome an inability to built novel theory.

    2. Should I be reasonably confident of a funded acceptance offer from at least one 2nd tier program?
    There are very few programs that fail to offer a full tuition waiver, an assistance-ship that pays enough to live in an apartment and eat food you cook yourself, most also include medical-coverage.

    Is it better for me to request letters of recommendation from my undergrad liberal arts professors, or should I rely on past supervisors (non-academic) and community college math instructors (non-tenured, maybe not even with PhD...)
    Ph.D.s only; Preferably someone that can speak to your ability to be a researcher (maybe your JD profs?)

    Let's be clear though; Intb and OB, while related, are sometimes quite different as well. Why do you want a Ph.D. and what defines your research interest?
    Quote Originally Posted by Indus
    Till you feel reasonably enthusiastic about the research area. It is entirely possibel to do a bad PhD at a great program. If you are not motivated by the research area, you would have a hard time finishing a PhD.
    You can find a list of accredited programs:here Do NOT choose a "program" or "format" as these features are quite buggy. 24% don't list GMAT

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    Profile Eval Response - Follow-Up

    Thank you very much for your response! I'm replying to some of your questions below - much appreciation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rsaylors View Post
    So that's about a 710 gmat (good) but 96th V 69th Q split (better if that was flipped... but OK) (going by percentiles).
    "well, ageism is illegal, so let's call it "perceived fit")" Is it illegal in admissions?
    Yes, it's illegal: see Age Discrimination Overview of the Laws and www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/age.cfm

    Quote Originally Posted by rsaylors View Post

    Not at all. As Roy Suddaby said: There's no doubt that facility with language is directly linked to ability to build theory.

    In OB I would argue that V is more important than Q; we have easily understood software packages for statistics... no device can overcome an inability to built novel theory.
    I'm glad to hear this... I was actually surprised to learn how little value most B schools place on the V score (as if it hardly matters, in some cases). I also got a 5.0 on the "analytical writing" section if that matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by rsaylors View Post
    Ph.D.s only; Preferably someone that can speak to your ability to be a researcher (maybe your JD profs?)
    Good suggestion - I guess a law professor's LOR would be more subject-matter relevant, and also more recent (although still 10+ years out of date for me). I'll also try to take an advanced math class taught by an actual PhD versus master's holder, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by rsaylors View Post
    Let's be clear though; Intb and OB, while related, are sometimes quite different as well. Why do you want a Ph.D. and what defines your research interest?
    That's a very good question. I didn't make any reference of this in my post just to keep it simple, but much of my direct experience relates to organizational issues (hiring and firing, business acquisitions and restructuring) in an international context, which is why I'm interested in intb and OB. My legal work over the years has involved a lot of research (including a couple of contributions to published articles) and I would prefer to focus on this (and teaching - with which I also have exp.) rather than the legal rat race.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Good post? Yes | No
    You can take a look at the thread I started on this a few years ago.

    I was also 41 when I applied (just turned 44) have finished my 2nd year and I am now studying for comps.

    The transition can be challenging as there are many things in research you need to take at face value and experience can get in the way.

    Make sure you take advanced stats (Multiple Regression, Path Analysis, Structural Equation Modeling, Factor Analysis, etc. as these are pretty standard in OB)

    Also, I think you need to apply to more schools.

    I applied to 28 total and was admitted at 6.

    It is a Turkey shoot at this stage unless someone really wants to work with you.

    http://www.urch.com/forums/phd-business/119265-non-traditional-applicant-olde-underrepresented-groups-diversity-suggestions.html


    Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.

    Haread

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Good post? Yes | No
    Why not study a little harder and retake the GMAT to boost your math score? You have time. Since one concern is going to be over your age and it's effect on your mathematical ability anything you can do to mitigate that concern will help you. This by the way coming from an older student who faced the same challenge... took my GRE twice to get my quant GRE score up above the 90th percentile level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShowBizKid View Post
    Why not study a little harder and retake the GMAT to boost your math score? You have time. Since one concern is going to be over your age and it's effect on your mathematical ability anything you can do to mitigate that concern will help you. This by the way coming from an older student who faced the same challenge... took my GRE twice to get my quant GRE score up above the 90th percentile level.
    To be honest, he's 41 and a liberal-arts under grad applying to the least quantitative of the business disciplines; I assumed that he studied as hard as he could already and did the best he could...

    But if he just walked in an wrote a 69/96 q/v split then studying is going to help a great deal: good catch!
    Quote Originally Posted by Indus
    Till you feel reasonably enthusiastic about the research area. It is entirely possibel to do a bad PhD at a great program. If you are not motivated by the research area, you would have a hard time finishing a PhD.
    You can find a list of accredited programs:here Do NOT choose a "program" or "format" as these features are quite buggy. 24% don't list GMAT

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