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Thread: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

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    My Two Cents How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

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    Hello. I hope everyone is starting to get good news from PhD programs. I myself have applied to both sociology and management/OB PhD programs. There is a lot of information online on the overall health of the sociology job market, e.g., how many jobs and how many PhD graduates per year, what typical placement is for a productive student at a top program. However, there is very little information I can find on the Business School Job Market.

    I know I can see some placements on individual university websites. But is there any good information on the business school job market overall? Information that will help me compare sociology and business in terms of job market quality? Information that will give me a sense of "how likely I am to get an R1 job", for example?

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    Re: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

    Quote Originally Posted by tak View Post
    Hello. I hope everyone is starting to get good news from PhD programs. I myself have applied to both sociology and management/OB PhD programs. There is a lot of information online on the overall health of the sociology job market, e.g., how many jobs and how many PhD graduates per year, what typical placement is for a productive student at a top program. However, there is very little information I can find on the Business School Job Market.

    I know I can see some placements on individual university websites. But is there any good information on the business school job market overall? Information that will help me compare sociology and business in terms of job market quality? Information that will give me a sense of "how likely I am to get an R1 job", for example?

    Here is a link to a recent job placement presentation.

    Your experience on the job market will be largely dependent upon the program you are in and how productive you are. I am an ABD student at a mid tier R1 and every person who has left our program since I've started here has had no issue getting a tenure track job.

    Are you macro/strategy or micro/OB focused? I am assuming that since you also applied to sociology programs that you are trending towards macro?

    Top tier R1s will be in the 170K-200K range + summer support (usually 2/9s your base salary)
    Mid and low tier R1 jobs will range from 135K-170K + summer support (usually 1/9 or 2/9 base salary)
    R2s are probably in the 120-130K range (not all offer summer support) There are also some R2s that pay quite well.
    R3s/teaching schools are in the 90-120K range

    You will need to come from a solid program and have an A pub or late stage A R&Rs to hit an R1 if you are a macro candidate. Micro candidates tend to need multiple As. Of course, this may be completely different four or five years from now when you're on the market.

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    Re: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

    Quote Originally Posted by BCB View Post

    Here is a link to a recent job placement presentation.

    Your experience on the job market will be largely dependent upon the program you are in and how productive you are. I am an ABD student at a mid tier R1 and every person who has left our program since I've started here has had no issue getting a tenure track job.

    Are you macro/strategy or micro/OB focused? I am assuming that since you also applied to sociology programs that you are trending towards macro?

    Top tier R1s will be in the 170K-200K range + summer support (usually 2/9s your base salary)
    Mid and low tier R1 jobs will range from 135K-170K + summer support (usually 1/9 or 2/9 base salary)
    R2s are probably in the 120-130K range (not all offer summer support) There are also some R2s that pay quite well.
    R3s/teaching schools are in the 90-120K range

    You will need to come from a solid program and have an A pub or late stage A R&Rs to hit an R1 if you are a macro candidate. Micro candidates tend to need multiple As. Of course, this may be completely different four or five years from now when you're on the market.
    Thank you! I was thinking the AOM conferences might have something on this, but I couldn't find it, so thank you for finding that for me.

    I am leaning towards macro, but I have to admit that I'm still uncertain. It seems like you're saying the micro market is more challenging, which is good to know. Of course that is just one factor in what research I produce.

    I will keep looking for more information.

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    Re: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

    Actually, do we have data for how many new PhDs are granted every year in management? This would be useful to combine with the number of job ads on AOM? (451 in 2019, according to that link)

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    Re: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

    Quote Originally Posted by tak View Post
    Thank you! I was thinking the AOM conferences might have something on this, but I couldn't find it, so thank you for finding that for me.

    I am leaning towards macro, but I have to admit that I'm still uncertain. It seems like you're saying the micro market is more challenging, which is good to know. Of course that is just one factor in what research I produce.

    I will keep looking for more information.
    My opinion is that the micro market is more challenging, but others may argue that Micro has more A-Level publication outlets which makes it easier to publish.

    Quote Originally Posted by tak View Post
    Actually, do we have data for how many new PhDs are granted every year in management? This would be useful to combine with the number of job ads on AOM? (451 in 2019, according to that link)
    I do not know of an easy way to determine this. The applicants figure may be a bit misleading as not everyone who is signed up for career services is actually on the market. I would guess that there are roughly 150 AACSB PhD programs in the US that each produce 2 or 3 new PhDs a year. About 600 Tenure Track jobs have been posted to start Fall 2020 but many of those end up hiring assistant professors.

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    Re: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

    Quote Originally Posted by BCB View Post
    My opinion is that the micro market is more challenging, but others may argue that Micro has more A-Level publication outlets which makes it easier to publish.



    I do not know of an easy way to determine this. The applicants figure may be a bit misleading as not everyone who is signed up for career services is actually on the market. I would guess that there are roughly 150 AACSB PhD programs in the US that each produce 2 or 3 new PhDs a year. About 600 Tenure Track jobs have been posted to start Fall 2020 but many of those end up hiring assistant professors.
    Thanks! That's helpful. I saw a Twitter thread that suggested something like a 1.2 sociology graduates to sociology TT jobs ratio (Daniel Laurison on Twitter: "I asked about this earlier & found the answers, so, in sociology:

    2016 - 652 new PhDs, 314 AP-only jobs, 526 total jobs
    2015 - 763 new PhDs, 325 AP-only, 485 total
    2014 - 711 new PhDs, 333 AP-only, 489 total
    2013 - 663 new PhDs, 351 AP-only, 469 total

    (Sources in next tweet)"
    ), and with your numbers it's approximately 0.5 to 0.75 in management. It's hard to convert those numbers into "chances you will get a TT job" but it seems like that large difference is decent evidence that the management job market is way better than sociology!

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    Re: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

    Quote Originally Posted by tak View Post
    Thanks! That's helpful. I saw a Twitter thread that suggested something like a 1.2 sociology graduates to sociology TT jobs ratio (Daniel Laurison on Twitter: "I asked about this earlier & found the answers, so, in sociology:

    2016 - 652 new PhDs, 314 AP-only jobs, 526 total jobs
    2015 - 763 new PhDs, 325 AP-only, 485 total
    2014 - 711 new PhDs, 333 AP-only, 489 total
    2013 - 663 new PhDs, 351 AP-only, 469 total

    (Sources in next tweet)"
    ), and with your numbers it's approximately 0.5 to 0.75 in management. It's hard to convert those numbers into "chances you will get a TT job" but it seems like that large difference is decent evidence that the management job market is way better than sociology!
    Beware that the number of total jobs is not equal to the number of Tenure-track jobs, and even for AP-only ones, I would guess a large share of those won't make any offer. Personally I think a 2 or 2.5 : 1 ratio is more likely for sociology.

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    Re: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

    He clarifies in a later tweet that he only included tenure track jobs. The majority of jobs listed in the 600 figure I gave above are also tenure track but there are a few lecturer/VAPs listed as well (No adjuncts or post docs). However, the spring market is just starting so I suspect that more job postings are coming.
    Although the Management market is healthier in terms of PhDs:Jobs ratio and probably pay, your program does make a difference. If I were in your position, I would probably plan on sticking with Management. But if you get into a top ten sociology program and a much lower ranked business program, I wouldn't immediately discount the sociology program. One of the most gifted early career researchers in my area actually has a PhD in Sociology and is at a reasonably ranked R1 business school. It is rare, but a strong sociology PhD can make their way into a business school if they study the right research topics.

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    Re: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

    The job market for management professors is not good but also not very bad. It depends on your background and what you are looking for.

    Management is separated into OB and Strategy. In the USA alone, there are maybe more than 400 phd fresh grads in Management. And you must consider those from outside the USA, which is maybe another 400. And consider Asst Profs wanting to move. And consider Econs and Pyschology PhDs who are looking for jobs in OB or Quant Marketing or Strategy too.

    And many of those in AOM are non urgent job posts, which means the uni may be looking to hire in the next 3 years, but they may not hire that year, but is just fishing and seeing what they can get. Unis can always hire adjuncts or someone cheaper.

    Simply put, they have great leverage over job candidates, and supply is always far greater than demand overall.
    Last edited by candysg123; 02-01-2020 at 05:27 AM.

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    Re: How is the job market for students with PhDs in business?

    Are you macro/strategy or micro/OB focused?

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