MSc Economics: Bocconi or BGSE?

[mkln]

Hi everybody.

 

I absolutely love this forum and now I need you guys to give me some advice.

 

I am an italian Bocconi undergrad about to finish my 3-year bachelor course in Economics.

Two days ago I received an email telling me I have been accepted to Barcelona GSE 's MSc in Economics with full tuition waiver.

 

I still don't know the result of my application to Bocconi Msc Economics, but I am pretty sure I will be admitted to the MSc Economics. The question is: with or without scholarship (=tuition waiver)?

Bocconi's scholarship is basically a tuition waiver for the 1st year and is confirmed for the 2nd year only if you have a GPA of 28/30.

 

I initially thought that the best route towards a good PhD program would include 2 additional years in Bocconi, hopefully with scholarship.

I never considered that BGSE could actually give me a tuition waiver. I applied because I wanted to have some options, but I still thought Bocconi was the best possible choice.

 

BGSE requires 500 euros to be paid in advance and the deadline for me is april 25

Bocconi should be finished with the admissions by march 31 , but needs 2 more weeks to assign the scholarships.

This means that I won't have much time to decide between Bocconi and BGSE and this is why I am asking you guys to give me some advice.

 

Now that BGSE offers a full tuition waiver I am tempted to go there.

So what do you think about all this?

 

Scenarios:

 

1) BGSE [1 year] with tuition waiver vs Bocconi [2 years] with scholarship

 

or

 

2) BGSE [1 year] with tuition waiver vs Bocconi [2 years] without scholarship

 

if Bocconi gives me a scholarship I would probably stay in Milan, but as far as the second option is concerned, I think I'd go to Barcelona and save 20k euros.

 

finally, I don't have that much information about BGSE, so what do you think about it?

from what I've understood the Msc Economics program is entirely from Pompeu Fabra (others are from the other universities composing BGSE) so I guess in my case BGSE = UPF. am I wrong?

 

 

 

 

thank you!

[wanderlust]

I also applied to both , BGSE and Bocconi. Bocconi has been pretty prompt in replying. And BGSE has not at all communicated anything to me! By the way, if I am not mistaken, the BGSE Msc Econ leads you to a direct PhD entry.. and BGSE is an excellent place to do a PhD. But , Bocconi Msc Eco has also got an excellent reputation. See if you are research oriented or would like to try your hand in the job market. either ways, you are a winner!

 

Secondly, could you tell me how hard is it to maintain a GPA of 28/30 in Bocconi? for an international student? Any comments?

[MJ7]

1) BGSE [1 year] with tuition waiver vs Bocconi [2 years] with scholarship

 

I would choose Bocconi: as said in another thread, it has a record of placing students in good PhD programs afterwards, and you get excellent study abroad opportunities

 

2) BGSE [1 year] with tuition waiver vs Bocconi [2 years] without scholarship

 

BGSE would make more sense then, at the margin, given the differential in cost of living and the investment of 2 years in an unfunded program.

 

if Bocconi gives me a scholarship I would probably stay in Milan, but as far as the second option is concerned, I think I'd go to Barcelona and save 20k euros.

reads my mind...

 

from what I've understood the Msc Economics program is entirely from Pompeu Fabra (others are from the other universities composing BGSE) so I guess in my case BGSE = UPF. am I wrong?

I'm afraid you are...BGSE does not equal UPF, and more importantly, it is a highly competitive program (similar to LSE MSc research), out of which only a small percentage of people end up going to the UPF PhD; plus, it does not give you much room to get new LORs for other PhDs since it's only one year long. Just my :2cents:

[mkln]

I also applied to both , BGSE and Bocconi. Bocconi has been pretty prompt in replying. And BGSE has not at all communicated anything to me! By the way, if I am not mistaken, the BGSE Msc Econ leads you to a direct PhD entry.. and BGSE is an excellent place to do a PhD. But , Bocconi Msc Eco has also got an excellent reputation. See if you are research oriented or would like to try your hand in the job market. either ways, you are a winner!

 

Secondly, could you tell me how hard is it to maintain a GPA of 28/30 in Bocconi? for an international student? Any comments?

 

well I haven't talked to anybody in the MSc ESS program, but from what I know a GPA of >28 means being in the top 10%

 

other things I know: there are a total of 70 scholarship which are divided among ALL MSc courses in Bocconi, but 1/3 of them are reserved to the Economics MSc (170 students)

So if all scholarships were assigned (but bocconi has no obligation to assign all scholarships), around 23 of them would be assigned to the Economics Msc

Being 23/170 = 13.5%, if only 10% of students will have a GPA>28, then somebody will have to pay for the second year.

 

I think top 10% is rather difficult, if not impossible, for somebody who has not studied in Bocconi before (unless you're a genius). In a class of 85 students you should basically be among the 8 best. 17 people considering english and italian classes together. I know who is applying to the MSc here and I think there's a lot of people deserving the scholarship.

undergrads here are aware (today more than in the past) that Bocconi offers great opportunities and are thus more willing to continue with the MSc here rather than moving abroad. this makes it even more competitive.

I think if I received a scholarship it would be very difficult for me to have it confirmed for the second year.

 

 

btw, BGSE replied only 1 week after I submitted my application!

and one of my classmates got even a TA offer (1 month ago). even he is waiting for Bocconi! and I think there's other people, too, in our exact same situation.

 

 

as for BGSE. I was wondering... this year's class is composed by 48 people. how many got a full tuition waiver? does somebody know?

I've also seen that there are a lot of italians in their programs.... they're as many as the spanish. I was rather surprised when I saw that...

[seehownomics]

@mkln - thanks, that was a very informative post. From what I gather from the website, there are 5 rounds for international applicants, the last one ending May 10th. Would you know whether those applying in April and May still get considered for scholarships or would those be exhausted by now?

[mkln]

@mkln - thanks, that was a very informative post. From what I gather from the website, there are 5 rounds for international applicants, the last one ending May 10th. Would you know whether those applying in April and May still get considered for scholarships or would those be exhausted by now?

 

I don't know...

but let's see ....

 

from here

http://www.unibocconi.it/wps/wcm/resources/file/eb1f254918d7be1/3%20-%20ESS%202008.pdf

you can see that the majority of students studied in Bocconi undergraduate programs (>80%).

now this number should be lower in 2008-2009 and subsequent years, but will still be very high.

Then, this year there will be say 100 students from Bocconi applying for Econ MSc.

All these applicants must have participated in the selections which were available to them: either the first session (with mandatory GRE/GMAT with quant score >760) or the second session, with deadline april 30th.

There is only one thing here that may help: from what I've heard there's not a large number of students trying with the first session. Keep in mind that the first session is restricted to those having a GRE/GMAT score.

 

All this above was to underline that there shouldn't be many students applying in the first session, and this means that the majority of students will be admitted with the second session: April.

 

To this, you should add the fact that the requirements for the scholarship are not the same as those for the admission process. The scholarship requires higher scores, so maybe there will even be somebody who has applied in the first session with a score that is higher than the admission requirement but lower than the scholarship requirement and so is left out from selection.

 

All this to say that I think that there will be scholarships even for the last 2 sessions.

 

I've also heard that not all scholarships were assigned last year... (though maybe some of those who got it chose to go to some other university)

anyway the only good news that I heard from a very good source is that 1/3 of scholarships are assigned to MSc Econ. (which is very good news if you consider that there are 170 econ students out of a total 1785!)

but other than that, I'm no insider.

[emanuele]

Hi, I am an italian currently in the first year of the MSc in Economics at Bocconi, with full scholarship. There are two classes of 80 students, one in italian and the other in english. In total 25 people, 23 of them from the "english" class, have the graduate merit award (GMA) scholarship . From what I observe, if you don't get the GMA you'd be better off not to come here but go to UPF. The reason is that professors already "know" the GMA students plus it's hard to mantain a 28+ gpa if you haven't done so in your undergrad at Bocconi. Take also into account that to hope to benefit form the amazing placements this MSc has in top 10 phds, you need, except in particular cases, to have at least a 29+ gpa and close to 30 in the "important" subjects (maths, stats, some hard econ). This means you need to be among the 10 best and trust me there are many good students here. For instance, I was only one of the many who had offers from LSE, Oxbridge, UPF and the like, but decided to go to Bocconi because of its placement (and money). As for keeping the scholarship, this year lots of students with the GMA are struggling to have a gpa of 28+ taking all the required exams. Many of them are international and this mainly comes from the difference in the academic life. This brings to another point, that is if you come here, be prepared to a challenging year, with a lot of pressure coming involuntarily from your classmates and also by some professors. At the same time, people here are great and the environment is actually very friendly, I think much more than in places like top UK unis. UPF must be similar to Bocconi tough. Overall, it's a very competitive program with very ambitious, but personally great, students.

 

Placement. Well, many people here still think Bocconi is at most on par with UPF, Ox, Cam, and far behind LSE. Actually, Bocconi has by far the best placement of all of them. This year, that I know, one guy got in everywhere and is going to MIT, 5 people are in at Yale, 4 at NWU, 4 at NYU, 2 at Princeton, 1 at Chicago, 3 at Columbia, 1 at Berkeley and others in the low-top15 schools. Of course there is overlapping but there at least 8 different students with a top 10 admit and more if you consider top20. One important point to consider is that most of these students actually applied in their third year, that is they are graduating now (or they have just graduated) and they are doing some research with Bocconi profs at the same time. Almost all of them also took phd courses as electives (Real Analysis is a must).

 

In the end, Bocconi is a great choice if you're sure you want to do a top phd in the US and you are confident you can be one of best in the program. No one can gives you this certainty however. On the other hand, if you think you'd be happy doing a top european phd, it'd be better to go to LSE, Oxbridge, UCL or UPF if funded, since in this way you will very probably "save" one or two years.

 

If you have anything else to ask, feel free to ask.

[Zomb1]

Howdy:) I'm an international student, emanuele's classmate and I also have the full merit award.

 

First, the full merit award is tuition waiver + EUR 3500 (or housing). Or at least was like this last year. Second, next year it will be much easier to keep the scholarship. I believe the requirement will be 28/30 and at least 50 credits, while for us it is 28/30 and all exams from the first year passed. This basically means that you will be able to postpone one exam for the second year and have your GPA calculated without this exam.

 

Second, I agree with emanuele, but I would like to add a few more things. I cannot comment on the quality of BGSE, but keep in mind it is a one year program. In order to get LORs from Barcelona, you will most probably need to take a year between BGSE and PhD. Also, for Italians at least, Bocconi is an excellent place to be. If you are made of top-10 material, Bocconi will place you there. If you are not, but still want to do a PhD, you will be able to do so. Also, keep in mind that many people change their minds about PhD after the first year. Graduate school is a grinding experience and a lot of people who are able to get into good PhD programs decide otherwise. Trust me when I tell you, going for a PhD is not a trivial choice to make. Bocconi has an excellent industry placement in Italy, so if you decide to go that way, I think you'd be better off with a Bocconi degree than with a BSGE degree.

 

Whether you should still go to Bocconi without the money... depends on your personal financial situation.

[wanderlust]

@emanuele: Thanks a ton!

@Zomb! : Thanks a ton!

 

Even I have the graduate merit award. The thing is, there has always been a mixed feedback about the performance of international students over there. As for Bocconi undergrads are concerned they seem to flourish. I was curious about the scene with the international students. How many of them manage to keep up with the good grades and likewise retain the award.

 

Frankly speaking, for me it is a bit of a risk, because in case of discontinuation of the award, it would be terribly expensive. Milan needs about 1000 euros a month to survive. 2nd costliest city after london and at par with Amsterdam and Frankfurt it is.

 

Rest apart, the school is excellent. :) What are your comments about this?

 

I would like to thank everybody on this thread, it has turned out to be very very helpful for me personally. Please feel free to share your thoughts.

[wanderlust]

@mkln: Thanks to you too :)

[mkln]

@emanuele: Thanks a ton!

@Zomb! : Thanks a ton!

 

Even I have the graduate merit award. The thing is, there has always been a mixed feedback about the performance of international students over there. As for Bocconi undergrads are concerned they seem to flourish. I was curious about the scene with the international students. How many of them manage to keep up with the good grades and likewise retain the award.

 

Frankly speaking, for me it is a bit of a risk, because in case of discontinuation of the award, it would be terribly expensive. Milan needs about 1000 euros a month to survive. 2nd costliest city after london and at par with Amsterdam and Frankfurt it is.

 

Rest apart, the school is excellent. :) What are your comments about this?

 

I would like to thank everybody on this thread, it has turned out to be very very helpful for me personally. Please feel free to share your thoughts.

 

1000 euros/month?

I spend

and you can survive with much less, I guess ;-)

milan is expensive but not that expensive. I spent much more each month in NYC, even with the very favorable exchange rate.

[wanderlust]

By the way, I have been admitted into EMIT and not ESS.

@mkln: thats good news! well, I guess I was going by the standard figures put up on the various websites. Nice to know this. But please tell me , more aboput the continuation of the award.

[Zomb1]

 

Even I have the graduate merit award. The thing is, there has always been a mixed feedback about the performance of international students over there. As for Bocconi undergrads are concerned they seem to flourish. I was curious about the scene with the international students. How many of them manage to keep up with the good grades and likewise retain the award.

 

 

It is my impression that international students, in general, find it more difficult to keep the merit award. I am not sure what is the reason exactly. However, I believe that if you work hard enough, throughout the semester, you will be able to keep the award.

 

 

Frankly speaking, for me it is a bit of a risk, because in case of discontinuation of the award, it would be terribly expensive. Milan needs about 1000 euros a month to survive. 2nd costliest city after london and at par with Amsterdam and Frankfurt it is.

 

 

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I would not be able to afford to pay for the second year myself. However, keep in mind that in case you loose the award you can always apply for the need-based ISU scholarship. It is my understanding that almost all international students who are not that well off, but are in good standing are able to get this scholarship. The exact amount depends on your family income, but in the best case it is equal or slightly better than the full merit award.

 

I should be honest here, the chance that I might lose my award has been a significant source of stress for me.

 

@mkln Do you mean you pay for housing AND living expenses with a 700 EUR budget? On average I spend around 500 EUR a month and this is without housing. This number does include all fixed costs, like insurance, textbooks, annual metro pass, etc.

 

@wanderlust What me and emanuele have been saying relates only to ESS-DES. It should be significantly easier to keep the merit award in EMIT though. However, if you are planning to go on for a PhD afterwards, I am not sure how well would you do, especially if you wanted to do pure econ. I would e-mail the EMIT director and ask for placements in PhD programs.

[wanderlust]

@zomb1: you read my mind correctly!

@mknl: I logged off and went for dinner. I just realised , are you talking of less than 700 euros with or without housing rent? I was saying 1000 euros, keeping the housing in mind.

[wanderlust]

@Zomb1: I applied for EMIT , as it had the flavour of a Management program as well. I thought the combination would be interesting. By the way, how do you see the placement scene for an international student after the course gets over?

 

DO Italian firms, entertain international students who do not speak italian?

[mkln]

Hi all

sorry if I bring up this thread again.I just wanted to know how you guys compare the 2 offers I received from Bocconi and BGSE.

Bocconi gave me full merit award (tuition waiver + $) and I thought that I was going to accept this offer.

However I received an email today from Barcelona which basically told me they're now offering me a half-TAship.

How does a TAship usually work? I really did not expect a new offer from barcelona and I was happy with my scholarship in Bocconi.

So now what?

[Gecko]

If your interests are towards macroeconometrics and DSGE, then BSGE may be a slightly better fit.

[icebear]

Hi all

sorry if I bring up this thread again.I just wanted to know how you guys compare the 2 offers I received from Bocconi and BGSE.

Bocconi gave me full merit award (tuition waiver + $) and I thought that I was going to accept this offer.

However I received an email today from Barcelona which basically told me they're now offering me a half-TAship.

How does a TAship usually work? I really did not expect a new offer from barcelona and I was happy with my scholarship in Bocconi.

So now what?

 

Can you give us an idea of how the offers compare financially? Did you receive a tuition waiver at both schools? How does the stipend at one compare to the other? How many hours per week are you obligated to TA at BGSE (I assume none at Bocconi?)?

 

It seems that from either program there is a record of 'stars' getting excellent placements, both schools have a good reputation in academic circles (unsure about professionally), so if your goal is the masters and moving onto stronger schools the decision would be based on financial offers or city preference.

 

If you are planning on doing a PhD at either it would depend on your interests and how they match faculty, but I imagine with a full merit award from Bocconi you probably have a good idea of that.

[mkln]

well, not really, but is there a significant difference in the micro departments of the 2 unis?

I've seen there's some experimental econ activity in bgse and I know there is some in bocconi, too.

what I'm interested in is the TAship part compared to a scholarship without any TA position (even though one could apply for a TA position on the 2nd year of Bocconi Msc...)

 

also, is a TA position a preferential way to get a good LOR in absence of a final thesis?

and do professors in barcelona usually write good LORs?

[mkln]

Can you give us an idea of how the offers compare financially? Did you receive a tuition waiver at both schools? How does the stipend at one compare to the other? How many hours per week are you obligated to TA at BGSE (I assume none at Bocconi?)?

 

It seems that from either program there is a record of 'stars' getting excellent placements, both schools have a good reputation in academic circles (unsure about professionally), so if your goal is the masters and moving onto stronger schools the decision would be based on financial offers or city preference.

 

If you are planning on doing a PhD at either it would depend on your interests and how they match faculty, but I imagine with a full merit award from Bocconi you probably have a good idea of that.

 

bocconi offers

tuition waiver + €3500 or tuition waiver + housing, no TA, to be confirmed for 2nd year (confirmed if gpa>28)

 

bgse offers

tuition waiver + €5300(gross) for half TAship (30hours, but actual amount would obviously be much larger)

[italos]

This is a question for me ...check your reputation!

[mkln]

This is a question for me ...check your reputation!

 

I am sorry, what?

[jerseyGuy]

Hey everyone, I am resurrecting this thread because of this comment that scared me:

 

I think top 10% is rather difficult, if not impossible, for somebody who has not studied in Bocconi before (unless you're a genius). In a class of 85 students you should basically be among the 8 best. 17 people considering english and italian classes together. I know who is applying to the MSc here and I think there's a lot of people deserving the scholarship.

undergrads here are aware (today more than in the past) that Bocconi offers great opportunities and are thus more willing to continue with the MSc here rather than moving abroad. this makes it even more competitive.

I think if I received a scholarship it would be very difficult for me to have it confirmed for the second year.

 

I am an international student admitted to ESS who got the Merit Award for next year. My goal is a PhD in the US--although if I did not gain entry to a top 20 program, simply staying in Europe and working in the private sector would be a tolerable second choice. The €2000 payment is due in a week and I am leaning toward paying it and committing to Bocconi, since the funding and my liking the location makes this offer seem better than any others I am likely to receive. But am I wrong? Are there special challenges that international students face, as the poster above thought? What exactly makes the Italian system hard to get used to? And do the majority of internationals lose the scholarship in the second year? Thanks for any help!

[emanuele]

Hey jerseyGuy, commit to Bocconi and don't worry too much about the scholarship. You don't have to be a genius to keep the 28 gpa, you just have to put in some effort, but it is very doable. You can PM me if you want more info.

[Rylss]

Hey jerseyGuy, commit to Bocconi and don't worry too much about the scholarship. You don't have to be a genius to keep the 28 gpa, you just have to put in some effort, but it is very doable. You can PM me if you want more info.

 

Sorry to reopen this thread and thanks for all your insights and discussions!

 

 

I am a newly accepted Bocconi Ess international student and it's time to pay my deposit. However, I still have some concerns about what you have talked above.

 

would it be really hard for international students to make decent grades, like 28+/30, and gain RoLs from professors now? It is said that distinguished placement to US PhD were mainly for Italians.

 

Any thoughts or insights is welcomed!