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What would it take... (a purely speculative thread for a sunny Sunday afternoon)


TomRod

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1) I have no idea what this even means...like an elevator that goes to space I'm guessing? Probably 20 PhD engineering candidates fighting over a recommendation.

 

2) A 100% tax on all income and assets followed by a uniform distribution to households

 

3) " " normal " "

 

Where's my cookie?

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In all seriousness I have serious doubts that market forces can bring about the last two without serious government intervention. It also depends on what we consider "poverty" and out of curiosity do you think a normal distribution of wealth is a good thing?
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I'm undecided on the morass of that subject at this point. There is much to say concerning both just deserts and helping those in poverty.

 

I also doubt that market forces can bring about the first in any reasonable time frame :-)

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1) A mind-boggling amount of money and new metal stronger and lighter than anything currently known.

 

2) A technological singularity that brings about a post-scarcity economy (as opposed to the extermination of the human race by a swarm of bloodthirsty nanobots, which seems equally likely).

 

3) Not sure what you mean by this.

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I think OP uses "normalize" to mean force the welfare distribution to approach a normal distribution. If so, I think there are interesting moral questions to answer as to whether this is preferable. It is certainly not pareto efficient.

 

Anyway, on to two (and as a response to zomg), I highly doubt that 100% income tax or "serious" government intervention is the optimal solution. Wealth stock is dynamic and either of these would force the wealth stock to plummet. Moreover, substantial transaction costs will eat away at the available stock of wealth.

 

Better instead to structure institutions to incentivize entrepreneurship and wealth creation and human capital investments, along with a minimal level of public assistance. There is a lot of focus among leftists on the "market failure" roots of poverty; these individuals ignore that "government failure" is often just as strong a force. If the rightsizing of government and the creation and refinement of appropriate institutions is pursued, "poverty" - by which I mean the condition of being unable to meet certain basic needs like food, clothing, shelter, etc... - will decrease naturally.

 

The trend of history suggests that the poor are getting richer in two ways. First, the relative expenditures on basic needs has been plummeting: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/TC9NcrJvG0I/AAAAAAAAN3Y/S8hwBzi_3uk/s1600/food.jpg. Second, quality increases in goods and services almost consistently amount to "real" wealth improvements for each successive generation of impoverished.

Edited by assgf3
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Wasn't it just last week that the OP was complaining about people posting non-admission related threads in this forum? http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/132280-lm-curve.html#post861803

 

1) Andronicus is right, it would take further breakthrough in material sciences, probably involving carbon nanotubes or something similar. The Space Review: The space elevator: going up? part 1 (page 1)

 

2) A massive change in human nature (or more simply, a redefinition of the word "poverty").

 

3) Massive government interference and/or society moving away from capitalism, since it seems pareto distributions of income are a natural result of a market economies.

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1. after successfully building the space ladder and the space staircase.

2. stop considering poor people human beings

3. don't see why that would be desirable at all, since normal distribution of welfare is still very inequitable.

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has anyone considered that a space elevator will end poverty?

 

also I agree with chevoex about 3., wouldn't you want a distribution with very small kurtosis

 

as for poverty in poor countries, i think most will be eliminated with economic development over time.

 

as for rich countries, probably legalization of drugs would help a lot. also, making it easier to expunge a criminal record after a certain period of time, and until that time, have a safety net employment opportunity for when prisoners are released. programs like these would be key i think. Also reforming education. Poor, low skilled men are going to be doomed since manufacturing is moving away. the only way out is if more emphasis is put on education and improving skills. This would also help get girls in that girls like guys with skills. (nunchucks and such).

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1. I don't see why anyone would want a space elevator except for tourism (which in my opinion is a stupid reason). My solution would be make a 3d theatre and play a video of something ascending to space (I remember a several months ago there was a youtube video of an amateur son and his dad who attached a camera and GPS to a hot air balloon and got film from high up in the stratosphere).

 

2. According to Yunus "social businesses." In my opinion, we need brainwashing. On a serious note, I think human nature is too selfish, and for some segments of the population too damaged emotionally or mentally, to manage this. After all, half the people I meet in the park are mentally ill, disabled, or suffered a history of abuse. Taking care of all of them, though, would be unfeasible, and sometimes unwanted by the patient themselves. Furthermore, it would create a moral hazard problem--fakers.

 

3. I think I understand your intention, since a normalization would be preferred to our heavily skewed rightward status quo, and hopefully still provide enough punishment and reward to encourage capitalist hard work/innovation. I think one huge step forward for that would be making it harder for families to pass their enormous wealth on from one generation to the next. Not only must you raise inheritance taxes. I think you also should also raise taxes on large gifts at suspicious ages (i.e. near death) unless they're for a specific need such as medical or educational. Another suggestion, which is possibly less feasible than brainwashing, place heavy restrictions on lobbying. I think lobbyists and the inefficiency in politics they encourage are the main reason America at least has seen a rising gini coefficient (worse than most other developed countries).

 

P.S. I like how TM has started having more interesting discussions recently to break the monotony of the usual profile recommendation requests.

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I bet Python can do all of those things. Actually, Chuck Norris may have to write the program for the space elevator.

 

We have a winner of the hour :-)

 

A space elevator means drastically reduced cost for resource extraction--sometime to consider

 

I said "normal", and meant "uniform"--long day I guess

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1. I don't see why anyone would want a space elevator except for tourism (which in my opinion is a stupid reason). My solution would be make a 3d theatre and play a video of something ascending to space (I remember a several months ago there was a youtube video of an amateur son and his dad who attached a camera and GPS to a hot air balloon and got film from high up in the stratosphere).

 

The main economic benefit of a space elevator would be that it would allow for asteroid mining.

 

Asteroid mining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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