What is considered a "top undergraduate" in the context of economics PhD admissions?

[JDMoo]

I see the terms like "top undergraduate school" used quite a bit on forums and graduate school admissions guides. Does this refer to Harvard, Princeton, and Yale, or does it include schools other schools like UChicago and MIT with strong reputations in economics? Does it also include Berkeley, Michigan, Columbia, UPenn, and Stanford?

[sevet]

I would guess it's the same as the top department rankings in general

[JDMoo]

Given the overlap and importance of graduate coursework and big-name LOR writers, I suppose that makes sense. Do schools like Northwestern and Berkeley fit the top schools category while others like Columbia and Cambridge fall out of it because of their graduate rankings?

[tm_member]

Places like Dartmouth, BYU, and Tulane send lots of students to graduate school in Economics. However, they send them to different schools.

 

Essentially, it's all relative, what constitutes a "top" undergraduate program is dependent on pool you are being compared to.

 

Bottom line, if you want to go to Harvard for grad school it makes sense to go to an Ivy league undergrad if it is possible and money is not an issue. Going guarantees nothing and not going does not preclude admission to a top graduate program.

[JDMoo]

Ivy League is a lot more than Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. It includes Dartmouth, which as you said, doesn't send people top economics graduate schools. Does the advice aimed "Ivy League students" only apply to students at HYP, or does it extend to people studying at the lower Ivies as well?

[Catrina]

Given that the ranking is important primarily due to access to potential well-known LOR writers, etc., the economics rankings should be what matters.

[to2012]

Ivy League is a lot more than Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. It includes Dartmouth, which as you said, doesn't send people top economics graduate schools. Does the advice aimed "Ivy League students" only apply to students at HYP, or does it extend to people studying at the lower Ivies as well?

 

I find it difficult to believe that the sentiment "but he only went to Dartmouth" has ever been uttered as a sole justification for not offering admission to an applicant to any economics PHD program.

Edited May 10, 2014 by to2012

[tm_member]

Ivy League is a lot more than Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. It includes Dartmouth, which as you said, doesn't send people top economics graduate schools. Does the advice aimed "Ivy League students" only apply to students at HYP, or does it extend to people studying at the lower Ivies as well?

 

I didn't say that at all.

 

I said Dartmouth sends people to different schools than, say, Tulane. Dartmouth sends students to the very best schools.

[startz]

I took a look at the outgoing Harvard PhD class. According to my quick count, of the 26 people 6 had undergraduate degrees from Harvard, 1 from Dartmouth, 1 from Columbia-no others from the Ivy league.

[chateauheart]

^once you add in Stanford, MIT, Chicago and some top LACs, and remove the international students, I imagine the fraction that comes from Ivy or Ivy-level undergrads is pretty high. At least 70%.

[startz]

^once you add in Stanford, MIT, Chicago and some top LACs, and remove the international students, I imagine the fraction that comes from Ivy or Ivy-level undergrads is pretty high. At least 70%.

Chateauheart is more or less right.

 

There are really two separate points. Is it terribly important to go to HYP? No. Do most American students come from highly selective undergraduate institutions? Yes.

 

Keeping in mind this is based on one quick data point only...I counted 19 American BAs from this Harvard class. (I was surprised there were this many Americans.) Of the 19, 15 were from highly selective undergraduate institutions. And the others were also from good institutions.

[startz]

As two more small data points, my count of the 13 PhDs coming out of Princeton this year shows four Americans (also, one Canadian): one each from MIT, Yale, Cornell, and Tufts. My count for MIT is 11 Americans out of 16 graduates. All but two of the Americans come from highly selective colleges.

[coffeehouse]

Top undergraduate probably means the top 10-20 in the States?

 

I come from a Canadian school ranked within the top 30/40 (overall rankings/prestige etc) and I consider my school a "top undergraduate" -in the sense that the school is well recognized. It definitely did not hurt me, and if I went to a school ranked 60-80, it may have been a problem? Not too sure.

[synthxdill]

I should say Tulane sends folks to spectacular schools, my inability to crack the top 20 is because I'm not so glamorous, personally. :p

[PhDPlease]

There's no "official" definition of a top undergrad.

 

Also remember "Ivy League" was originally created as a sports conference, so it only included schools on the east coast (ie didn't include Stanford, UChicago) and doesn't include MIT as MIT is an engineering school... So it sounds kind of silly to debate over whether Princeton for example is better than Stanford because Stanford is not an Ivy when you consider this definition of Ivy.

[tm_member]

I should say Tulane sends folks to spectacular schools, my inability to crack the top 20 is because I'm not so glamorous, personally. :p

 

Absolutely, never meant to disparage Tulane, but it's no Dartmouth or Brown, right? :playful:

 

 

-dream sequence-

Miss Hoover: And the lowest grade in the class ...

Ralph: She's going to say my name!

Miss Hoover: Lisa Simpson, zero!

Principal Skinner: Lisa, the president of Harvard would like to see you.

Pres.: Nasty business, that zero. Naturally, Harvard's doors are now closed to you, but I'll pass your file along to ... Brown.

Principal Skinner: Mmmm, Brown. Heckuva school. Weren't you at Brown, Otto?

Otto: Yup. Almost got tenure, too.

Lisa: [gasps in horror] No, not Brown! Brown..

-end dream-

Lisa: ...Brown, Brown..

Miss Hoover: Lisa, you're saying Brown an awful lot, are you okay?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6956[/ATTACH]

 

[PhDPlease]

Also remember although Harvard is higher ranked than say Dartmouth, Dartmouth is still higher ranked than the vast, vast majority of universities in the country/world. So I feel like this discussion is kind of splitting hairs by zooming in on the top 1% (or less than 1%) of the university distribution, and then trying to determine cutoff points.

 

I do agree that sometimes there are doors that will be very difficult or impossible to open if you are at a university below of a certain quality regardless of how accomplished/deserving you are (which of course is unfortunate as some very deserving students might have life/personal/financial circumstances preventing them from attending a top university)... But at a say Dartmouth-level school, if you really stand out and achieve, I think doors should be open for you. And if you're at a school of that caliber, it really makes sense to focus on making the most of the opportunities available to you (which again are significantly more than are available to the vast majority of people in the world) rather than to worry about whether someone at Harvard has more opportunities than you.

[tm_member]

Also remember although Harvard is higher ranked than say Dartmouth, Dartmouth is still higher ranked than the vast, vast majority of universities in the country/world. So I feel like this discussion is kind of splitting hairs by zooming in on the top 1% (or less than 1%) of the university distribution, and then trying to determine cutoff points.

 

I do agree that sometimes there are doors that will be very difficult or impossible to open if you are at a university below of a certain quality regardless of how accomplished/deserving you are (which of course is unfortunate as some very deserving students might have life/personal/financial circumstances preventing them from attending a top university)... But at a say Dartmouth-level school, if you really stand out and achieve, I think doors should be open for you. And if you're at a school of that caliber, it really makes sense to focus on making the most of the opportunities available to you (which again are significantly more than are available to the vast majority of people in the world) rather than to worry about whether someone at Harvard has more opportunities than you.

 

Dartmouth and Harvard are extremely prestigious undergraduate institutions. I, and others (I think), basically said they are more similar than different.

 

I used Dartmouth in my example as a school at the extreme upper tail of the distribution.

[PhDPlease]

Dartmouth and Harvard are extremely prestigious undergraduate institutions. I, and others (I think), basically said they are more similar than different.

 

I used Dartmouth in my example as a school at the extreme upper tail of the distribution.

 

I was attempting to respond to the original question, not to disagree with your reply. Apologies if it sounded like I was disagreeing.

[econphd14]

I echo the sentiment that its hard to define "top undergraduate institution." From my own experience, my undergraduate likely does not fall into either of the top two tiers of institutions, with a median ACT of 27 and nearly a 70% acceptance rate; however, it was "good enough." That being said, I agree with PhDPlease in that it is a lot easier if you do come from a highly selective undergraduate.