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Loans etc for unfunded or weakly funded PhD


jjrousseau

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Hey urchers

 

I have an offer from Berkeley I'm planning to accept. The one drawback is that the funding package is very weak. I have some savings, but I'm not sure my savings will cover all the shortfall from the funding package, especially given high cost of living in the Bay.

 

I know this situation isn't singular, as plenty people apparently make low Berkeley funding work, and other schools offer weakly funded acceptances - eg no funding in the first year.

 

I wonder: How do students tend to make ends meet when the stipend and personal savings aren't enough to cover everything? I'm asking in the American context, so, are Federal loans in the picture for some people to help smooth consumption? What else do people draw on?

 

I know summer RA/TAships will also add a bit to overall income, but I'd like to know about what resources people draw on when this still falls a bit short. Of course there are also grants to apply for, but you never know for sure if you'll get one. So I'm particularly interested in the more reliable resources out there.

 

Thanks!

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Hey urchers

 

I have an offer from Berkeley I'm planning to accept. The one drawback is that the funding package is very weak. I have some savings, but I'm not sure my savings will cover all the shortfall from the funding package, especially given high cost of living in the Bay.

 

I know this situation isn't singular, as plenty people apparently make low Berkeley funding work, and other schools offer weakly funded acceptances - eg no funding in the first year.

 

I wonder: How do students tend to make ends meet when the stipend and personal savings aren't enough to cover everything? I'm asking in the American context, so, are Federal loans in the picture for some people to help smooth consumption? What else do people draw on?

 

I know summer RA/TAships will also add a bit to overall income, but I'd like to know about what resources people draw on when this still falls a bit short. Of course there are also grants to apply for, but you never know for sure if you'll get one. So I'm particularly interested in the more reliable resources out there.

 

Thanks!

 

Ask during the visit day - I just got back from one, also with weak funding, and the graduate students were very frank about the funding and offered advice on how to make it work based on their own experience. They are an especially good resource because choices such as where to live can make a huge difference, and are school-specific. I don't see any reason why they would hold back.

 

Loans are an option - check out the financial aid office for your school. Though if you have student loans from undergrad... that would be tough.

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I went to Berkeley had a somewhat similar situation. First, many people take out loans to smooth consumption, etc. Second, double check this with the DGS, but my suspicion is that you'd likely have a TA or RA job in years 2 and beyond. So it is just a matter of making it through the first year.
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Be very cautious about attending a school without funding. Especially one in an area with a high COL.

 

What is your next best option? Perhaps request to defer admission for one year and try again? That is, work an RA job, improve your profile, and apply only to a handful of comparable schools. If you get a funded offer at a good school, you will save yourself several tens of thousands of dollars. If that doesn't work out, what have you really lost?

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Appreciate the replies so far. I'll definitely ask some folks at visit day.

 

Be very cautious about attending a school without funding. Especially one in an area with a high COL.

 

What is your next best option? Perhaps request to defer admission for one year and try again? That is, work an RA job, improve your profile, and apply only to a handful of comparable schools. If you get a funded offer at a good school, you will save yourself several tens of thousands of dollars. If that doesn't work out, what have you really lost?

 

@tm_member, my next best option is Michigan, which I perceive to be relatively distant from Berkeley. I'm already 4 years of full-time RA work removed from undergrad, so I'm definitely going to start a program this fall. To me, something on the order of 20k-30k seems worth it for a significantly better PhD experience with likely better job placement (in fact I've already revealed this preference by extending 2 years of RA work into 4 with a relatively low salary, where outside options were much higher).

 

Do you think my reasoning is off the mark here? If not, then the question is really just about the certainty that I will have access to some loans etc to help make it through.

 

-- To be clear, my Berkeley offer is not totally unfunded. It's effectively an unfunded first year, with TA funding after that, which I hear is not terribly uncommon at Berkeley these days. I have some savings, but not a ton.

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I certainly wouldn't delay another year if I had an offer from Michigan. So, it's either Berkeley or Michigan. If you can make Berkeley work on $20-30k for first year, it probably makes sense to go ahead and borrow to smooth consumption. If it would be more like $50k... the issue becomes more complex.
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There is no doubt un my mind that you should accept the offer. As you say, 30k is a small price to pay for studying in a much better university. Furthermore, you are American, in that way the only cost for you is the money. In my case, if I wanted to attend a place unfunded I would have to return to my country immediately after finishing my PhD.
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Cool. So assuming I'm set on making Berkeley work then, what are the common ways of doing this? Maybe the better way to phrase this is, if I need a loan, where do people usually turn? Do schools tend to have their own loans available; are federal loans more common; do people take private loans (I'm hoping not since those are probably harsher on interest rates)?

 

Thanks!

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I grew up in east Lansing, so this is going to be very hard for me to say. However, if I were in your shoes, I would go to Michigan, hands down. Michigan is a solid school where you can get a solid education and placement. I would not pay 20-30K more even to go to Harvard or MIT, let alone Berkeley, over a fully funded offer from somewhere like Michigan.

 

The reason why is that many unexpected things can happen that might leave you stuck with 20-30K debt. Here is a list.

 

1) You might fail comps. it happens. Sometimes you have a bad day. Sometimes tragic events happen.

2) You might realize somewhere along the line that you hate this and quit. This is actually pretty common.

3) You might fail your 2nd year exams. It happens. Sometimes life just gets in the way.

4) You might not be the best student, in which case it doesn't really matter which school you go to.

5) Something might happen with your adviser.

6) Job market might be so bad, or so good, that doesn't matter which school you go to

7) You might realize that you want to work somewhere where the slight edge in pedigree doesn't matter, or worse, where it might actually hurt you.

 

These aren't pleasant things to think about, but they happen, even to exceptionally smart and talented people. That is why most people take fully funded offers. I was actually in a much worse situation than you. I got accepted to both Harvard and MIT with weak funding, and my best fully funded offer was from a top 20-30. I took the fully funded offer and never regretted it. Of course, I am risk averse.

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We’re talking about a few months pay for a PhD economist. Compared to a lifetime of beneo. The financial risk is trivial

 

A few months? I started with an excellent job after my PhD and am quite frugal. Even with my nice salary and frugal living it would have taken me 1.5 years to pay off that debt once you factor in interest rates, taxes, rent, and other living expenses. My colleagues that went a similar path to jjrou took a couple years to pay off their respective debts as well, and they are financially responsible individuals who landed excellent jobs.

 

Either way, my point stands that a Berkeley PhD is not that much better than a U of M PhD, so why bother incurring an unnecessary risk.

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I grew up in east Lansing, so this is going to be very hard for me to say. However, if I were in your shoes, I would go to Michigan, hands down. Michigan is a solid school where you can get a solid education and placement. I would not pay 20-30K more even to go to Harvard or MIT, let alone Berkeley, over a fully funded offer from somewhere like Michigan.

 

The reason why is that many unexpected things can happen that might leave you stuck with 20-30K debt. Here is a list.

 

1) You might fail comps. it happens. Sometimes you have a bad day. Sometimes tragic events happen.

2) You might realize somewhere along the line that you hate this and quit. This is actually pretty common.

3) You might fail your 2nd year exams. It happens. Sometimes life just gets in the way.

4) You might not be the best student, in which case it doesn't really matter which school you go to.

5) Something might happen with your adviser.

6) Job market might be so bad, or so good, that doesn't matter which school you go to

7) You might realize that you want to work somewhere where the slight edge in pedigree doesn't matter, or worse, where it might actually hurt you.

 

These aren't pleasant things to think about, but they happen, even to exceptionally smart and talented people. That is why most people take fully funded offers. I was actually in a much worse situation than you. I got accepted to both Harvard and MIT with weak funding, and my best fully funded offer was from a top 20-30. I took the fully funded offer and never regretted it. Of course, I am risk averse.

 

I have to say I really wasn't expecting this viewpoint. @Kaysa, while your selection of a top 20-30 over Harvard/MIT has worked out well for you, this sounds like you are the exception, not the rule. And while I am sympathetic to risk aversion, it seems to me this focuses too much on the tails, and largely ignores what I think is still a considerable difference in expected PhD experience and outcome. "Job market may be so good/bad that it won't matter" - while possible - has to be overly concerned with the error term.

 

There's also reason to not be so concerned with many of these, and if anything they tilt in Berkeley's favor. Berkeley doesn't have first year comps, UM does. Both are supportive programs, so the prior likelihood of failing out at either is low as well. I've spent 4 years full-time RA-ing, so I have a decent sense this is what I'd like to continue doing, and probably won't drop out midway through. If something happens with my adviser, frankly Berkeley has a larger pool of backups I'd be excited to work with. I'm interested in labor and political economy; these fields are both deep at Berkeley, while UM has no political econ and - while of course their labor is a historical strength - I think UM labor would take some rebuilding if Bound and/or Brown were to retire, which they might well do before I'd get to work with them.

 

In addition, I do have some savings, so I'm not dipping into debt immediately. Though the net difference to me would likely be near 30k.

 

I don't think I'm going to change my mind about which program to attend. Nevertheless, @Kaysa I certainly respect your opinions on this forum, and I'd be curious to know if your position still holds.

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I am not trying to discourage you, just to ensure that you have thought this through and know what you are getting yourself into. I would recommend estimating the time it would take to pay off your debt, and to also consider what you will have to give up and delay to do so. If you are comfortable with these sacrifices than there are no regrets.
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I am not trying to discourage you, just to ensure that you have thought this through and know what you are getting yourself into. I would recommend estimating the time it would take to pay off your debt, and to also consider what you will have to give up and delay to do so. If you are comfortable with these sacrifices than there are no regrets.

 

Understood. Thank you!

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To get back to the original question- I had FAFSA offer about 20k / year despite me having good funding. I used it in year one to refinance some undergrad loans at a better rate.

 

i don’t know how it works, but fill out the form and see what you get.

 

Thanks, I'll definitely do that. Does this mean FAFSA paid you 20k in your first year and you could use that toward living expenses if you wanted?

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