Choosing between programs (UAB/BGSE/PennState/SSE)

[padma]

I have a few offers at this point, and I am having a hard time evaluating my options. Feedback and opinions from other applicants and graduate students will help me make an educated choice, so please let me know what you think my best course of action would be. Any information about the programs below, regarding placements, learning environment, interaction with faculty, funding, etc. is very welcome. I think current graduate students will be able to offer a lot of insight.

 

I am mainly interested in microeconomic theory, specifically applications of game theory to economics. I am not going to go into more detail here.

 

Admissions:

1. Autonomous University of Barcelona (IDEA program, will have to pay tuition, awarded a stipend for the first year)

2. Barcelona Graduate School of Economics (Economics program, no tuition waiver)

3. Pennsylvania State University (Ph.D., waitlisted for funding)

4. Stockholm School of Economics (Ph.D., full funding)

 

Pending:

1. Tilburg University

2. Bocconi University

3. Paris School of Economics (M1 track)

4. University of California- Santa Barbara

5. London School of Economics (EME program)

 

 

On a peripheral note, there are deadlines to accept some of the offers I have. But all my results are not in yet. In such a scenario, what does an applicant usually do?

 

Thank you.

[EXP]

Right now, the obvious choice is SSE because of funding alone, but I do not have a sense of the rankings of the European programs.

[dogbones]

Was Stockholm one of your top choices? It sure does seem like they want you there!

[padma]

Right now, the obvious choice is SSE because of funding alone, but I do not have a sense of the rankings of the European programs.

 

I put the funding information in the post for the sake of completeness. I am in a position to attend UAB for two years without additional funding, and I can finance myself for one year at Penn State if I am given a tuition waiver (I expect if I do well enough I'll secure funding thereafter via TA or RA work).

 

I'd like to know more about these programs, and how they compare with one another especially with regard to my field of interest. I want to attend the best possible program.

[padma]

Was Stockholm one of your top choices? It sure does seem like they want you there!

 

I never thought I'd get in. In absolute terms, it seems like an excellent program to go to. I was hoping to get more information via the forum.

[davidschindler]

SSE is an excellent program, but note that all these European programs will likely place you at a European school afterward. If you're interested in staying in the US then a US program should be your primary choice.

[padma]

SSE is an excellent program, but note that all these European programs will likely place you at a European school afterward. If you're interested in staying in the US then a US program should be your primary choice.

 

Thank you for your response. I don't have a preference between Europe and the US, as long as the placement is good.

[tm_member]

Thank you for your response. I don't have a preference between Europe and the US, as long as the placement is good.

 

Keep in mind that salaries in the US are generally 2x those in Europe.

[padma]

Keep in mind that salaries in the US are generally 2x those in Europe.

I didn't know. This is very helpful.

[to2012]

Penn State has a great program for theory, econometrics, trade, and probably some other fields. They punch above their weight in those areas. No funding is tough but I'm sure it's only for one year. If you have a tuition waiver and only need to cover living expenses for a year I'd definitely go to Penn State if you think you are good and would like to research in one of the aforementioned fields (provided that you prefer US to europe).

[tutonic]

One thing to note is that while information on this platform is aplenty when it relates to US schools, the same cannot be said for European schools. It needs mentioning, however, that if you're indifferent between EU and US placement, SSE is among the top few places to go to in Europe. If you look at their placement history, they consistently place very well in European/Asian schools.

[padma]

Generally, what would be the pros/cons of pursuing a Ph.D. in the US versus Europe? A few people are of the opinion that the US job market is well organized and superior to that of Europe, and a poster on this thread also said that an academic job pays much better in the US.

 

I had split my applications between US and European schools almost equally, but most of my peers chose to apply solely to the US. Penn State is certainly good for my field of interest, so if I receive funding (I am still very hopeful that I'll be taken off the waitlist) should I automatically prioritize that school? I am also waiting to hear back from Stony Brook, but since I got into SSE I had taken it off my list. Maybe I shouldn't do that.

[padma]

SSE is among the top few places to go to in Europe. If you look at their placement history, they consistently place very well in European/Asian schools.

 

This is true, their placement record is good. But the few inputs I have received about the job market in Europe is making me nervous.

[dogbones]

But I wouldn't give Penn State so much more credit than SSE, because look at the placements here: Initial placements of Ph.D. Graduates — Department of Economics. These are also mostly European and Asian placements. If it were me, I would apply to Penn State as a backup school, but since there's no difference in placements as compared to SSE, I would wholeheartedly choose to go to the "top" school of the respective region rather than a "middleground" school of the states. If it were me, I would find SSE much more stimulating. Plus, you might get to be a part of the Nobel Prizes fanfare and meet all kinds of new people. I would probably also have applied to Penn State, but with a full ride to a top school like SSE, the only thing stopping me would be whether or not I could handle learning Swedish over the next 6 months! I wish you the best...

[Kazakh]

I am afraid the following will be so obvious to you given that you are an Urch user, but maybe my comment will help narrow down your school list.

 

Probably you applied to such top master's programs as BGSE, Bocconi, PSE, and LSE EME because you thought it could then hopefully help you receive a PhD offer at a top 10 school at least. However, it might not be a good idea unless you are really sure you can be one of the best students in your class. My opinion is based on numerous discussions with students/graduates from those programs and professors familiar with the admissions game. Underperforming will severely damage your chances to be admitted to top 30 programs, let alone Penn State (which is surely on the rise and arguably a top 20 program right now). Remember that in the top European master's programs you would have to compete mostly against the guys that already had a bachelor's degree from those institutions, and thus have better connections with professors there and are more familiar with the coursework.

 

Still, even if you are sure you can excel at such a soul-crushing program at LSE EME, I think that Penn State is already a very good option. I second to2012's take on the program. You should not worry about the research fit or what happens if your interests change - Penn State is strong in many areas. I cannot say the same about UCSB, which seems to be predominantly good at environmental economics, a much narrower topic (maybe Professor Startz can counter that). Btw, if you have doubts about Penn State's placements being mostly Asian schools, remember who placed there, as well as look at the econjobrumors's job market updates --- Penn State has a couple of candidates having multiple flyouts to top US schools in the last 5 years or so. Also, keep in mind their median placement and compare it to that of some traditional top 20 programs (like Wisconsin, UCLA, UCSD, Duke) --- it is impressive to say the least. Also, Asian schools are also good and not that easy to get into.

 

If you would like to know the differences between European and US job markets, I strongly recommend browsing the econjobrumors website. The content is trash at times, but if you look hard enough, you will see many valuable insights there.

 

Good luck with Penn State! I am sure you will get off the waitlist for funding and do well there.

[padma]

 

Probably you applied to such top master's programs as BGSE, Bocconi, PSE, and LSE EME because you thought it could then hopefully help you receive a PhD offer at a top 10 school at least.

 

It is true that I applied to LSE EME as a backup in case I didn't get into a decent Ph.D. program. But all the others (BGSE, Paris) are entry points to their Ph.D. programs. I am not sure if PSE gives any funding for the first two years of coursework, but at least there is no tuition fee.

 

Still, even if you are sure you can excel at such a soul-crushing program at LSE EME

 

I don't think I will choose this option now; going through the application process once was enough for me. But I am still waiting to hear back.

 

If you would like to know the differences between European and US job markets, I strongly recommend browsing the econjobrumors website. The content is trash at times, but if you look hard enough, you will see many valuable insights there.

 

I'll have a look at this website. Thankyou so much for your input!

[padma]

But I wouldn't give Penn State so much more credit than SSE

 

When I'd applied to these schools, I had a preference for SSE over Penn State. But I am reassessing my opinion now. I will probably have an easier time adjusting at Penn State. I think I'll try to get in touch with current graduate students to find out more.

[dogbones]

When I'd applied to these schools, I had a preference for SSE over Penn State. But I am reassessing my opinion now. I will probably have an easier time adjusting at Penn State. I think I'll try to get in touch with current graduate students to find out more.

 

That makes a lot of sense, good point!

[davidschindler]

A few points from my perspective as well:

 

* It is true that salaries in the US are 2x those in Europe (with few exceptions). But it is also true that the cost of living in the US is significantly higher. Having lived in the US and in Europe, my feeling is that there isn't much of a difference in terms of purchasing power parity adjusted consumption possibilities. (Remember, things like child care, health insurance, pensions, education costs are often coming out of your salary in the US, while they are often provided for free in Europe.)

 

* Whether you'll attend SSE or Penn State will significantly influence your likelihood of securing a job in the US. As you can see from Penn State's placement, they don't regularly produce people who place in the top 10 schools (although they sometimes do). If you land at a lower-ranked school in the US, it might actually be better to get a decent job in Europe. This is because the heterogeneity in faculty quality in the US is very large across schools, but small within departments, while in Europe it is often small across schools but can be large within departments. In Europe, there are many places who are extremely good at subfield x, while subfield y is really sub-par. This may seem to rank the European place low on average, but you shouldn't forget that they have top people in one subfield. If that's your subfield, bingo! Penn State is obviously a better choice for you then if you think the risk of your research field changing is large.

 

* This latter point also makes it important to be well informed about the relative strengths and weaknesses of European departments. You can't just simply say, "Oh look, SSE is a good school, I should go there." but you should check out who at SSE is good (and if you're interested in the field) and who is not. For SSE this matters a little less than for lower-ranked schools because they are basically good at almost everything.

 

If you get admitted to Tilburg and need to make a decision between Tilburg and other places, let me know. I'm a faculty member there and happy to provide insights (with the usual disclaimer of course that personal opinions may be biased).

[feanor88]

Go to the program which offers you full funding, even when you have enough money for supporting yourself during some years. Funding is a signal of how they value your background and, especially, how they think about your potential of success.

[ftcrazyft]

BGSE econ program is an entry point to their PhD but you have to be in the top 10 to 15 spots of the class after the first term to get offered a spot in the PhD.

[padma]

 

This is because the heterogeneity in faculty quality in the US is very large across schools, but small within departments, while in Europe it is often small across schools but can be large within departments. In Europe, there are many places who are extremely good at subfield x, while subfield y is really sub-par. This may seem to rank the European place low on average, but you shouldn't forget that they have top people in one subfield. If that's your subfield, bingo! Penn State is obviously a better choice for you then if you think the risk of your research field changing is large.

 

I didn't consider the US vs Europe question in this light. Thank you so much for your contribution to this thread. Not only is this very helpful for me, I think it will help future applicants as well. As someone else mentioned, this forum is extremely helpful but currently it has only piecemeal information about European programs.

 

If you get admitted to Tilburg and need to make a decision between Tilburg and other places, let me know. I'm a faculty member there and happy to provide insights (with the usual disclaimer of course that personal opinions may be biased).

 

I will definitely get in touch if I get through. Thanks again!

[padma]

BGSE econ program is an entry point to their PhD but you have to be in the top 10 to 15 spots of the class after the first term to get offered a spot in the PhD.

 

I had similar information from elsewhere. The cost of the program is too high. Right now I can't even consider taking a chance on this, regardless of how good the program at UPF is.

[tm_member]

A few points from my perspective as well:

 

* It is true that salaries in the US are 2x those in Europe (with few exceptions). But it is also true that the cost of living in the US is significantly higher. Having lived in the US and in Europe, my feeling is that there isn't much of a difference in terms of purchasing power parity adjusted consumption possibilities. (Remember, things like child care, health insurance, pensions, education costs are often coming out of your salary in the US, while they are often provided for free in Europe.)

 

 

I find the cost of living in the five states I've lived in the US and my home country (Ireland) to be very comparable.

 

Moreover, to the extent that something is "free" in Europe, it is being paid for by higher taxes. In addition, child care is not provided for free in many European countries and likely not to those making 60,000+ euros. The US offers generous child tax credits and allows for child care expenses to be paid from pre-tax salary. Kindergarten (age 5) and above is public and free, same as in Europe. Given most academics won't have large families, it is hard to see this making much of a difference overall.

 

Health insurance for academics is very generous and paid for by the university. Public pensions are "paid for" by individual contributions to "social security." Private pensions, in a University, are a fringe benefit, again paid by the employer. Yes, salaries in the US would be higher if the employee got the cash instead of these pensions and insurance benefits but the salaries are still 2x european salaries even without these benefits. Lastly, almost every school offers free tuition to the college-age children of their faculty. This is a huge benefit.

 

TL;DR : Faculty in the US get a ton of perks and fringe benefits (insurance, pensions, free tuition for family) that might actually make the difference between US and European salaries even larger after adjusting for taxes and cost of living.

[padma]

I am reviving this thread to ask for advice on choosing between Warwick and SSE (both funded), for micro/game theory. I have received contradictory viewpoints from my peers and faculty advisers, and any input from members of this forum will be deeply appreciated. Thank you.