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Thread: Int'l student, where to take masters?

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    Re: Int'l student, where to take masters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayes View Post
    Quoting Kexin: “The pooled placement data of European programs are not that informative to Asian students. Most of sparkly placement records are from Europeans rather than Asians. Asians are not in the sample pool with others when adcom in the US review applications”.

    Your assumption is that race matters when applying from an European program. Your next assumption is that placements records are from Europeans rather than Asians. I am not sure if you are actually in a PhD program because you have some pretty obvious flaws in your Econometrics reasoning. Race does not matter. It does not matter whether the student is black, asian or whatever when attending the masters. Since the course structure is the same for everyone, the signal sent is also the same be it asian or european.

    Secondly, did you entertain the fact that maybe asians are not represented in CEMFI or whatever is because they aren’t that many applying to these places? And if I may ask, how do you know the race of each master attendee that has been places from these unis?. From what I know, they do not hold demographic data when discussing placements. If you have passed MWG you have passed it; the signal is the same for everyone.

    You need to also define what a sucessful applicant is. Prof. Startz had awesome data on the differences between US vs Foreign students entering into US PhDs. US applicants typically possess almost always research experience when entering top 10-20. Foreign students on the other hand were always entering PhDs with a masters. So to close the gap of research experience, yes they would benefit from taking the full sequence at their masters in Europe. As this also gives positive signal for research ability (indirectly signaling intuition).

    1. Race matters in review of PhD admissions in the US, because diversity matters. Don't know whether that's true or not in Europe. 2. My point is, the systematic differences in the placement records btw Europeans and Asians are from the quality of students, not the training per se. Of course the signal sent is same within the same cohort, given the same performance. 3. The demographic information of successful applicants is from some graduates. Almost every year, there is about one student share info he/she like this on online forum (not urch).

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    Re: Int'l student, where to take masters?

    [QUOTE=tutonic;1024263]That might be true. However, the reason those few European programmes can place their students into good PhD programmes is because the grades obtained there serve as a credible signal. Doing well in PhD Micro I at BGSE or CEMFI, for example, will serve as a better signal than doing well in one at an unknown university, even if hypothetically, the content are identical (as most PhD courses rightfully are) and of the same level of rigour.

    Agree! But why do you compare BGSE and CEMFI with an unknown university? I would tend to think US institutions know how rigorous the PhD Micro is in another US institution with a master program. Because you think first-year micro/metrics/macro is more rigorous in Europe?

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    Re: Int'l student, where to take masters?

    Quote Originally Posted by kexin View Post
    Agree! But why do you compare BGSE and CEMFI with an unknown university? I would tend to think US institutions know how rigorous the PhD Micro is in another US institution with a master program. Because you think first-year micro/metrics/macro is more rigorous in Europe?
    Because you can't take PhD-level courses in most US masters programme.. Most masters in the US are terminal degrees, by construction. MSc-level Econ courses are essentially just advanced undergraduate courses that have been repackaged.

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    Re: Int'l student, where to take masters?

    Quote Originally Posted by tutonic View Post
    Because you can't take PhD-level courses in most US masters programme.. Most masters in the US are terminal degrees, by construction. MSc-level Econ courses are essentially just advanced undergraduate courses that have been repackaged.
    But why would one potential PhD applicant apply to such a program? There are still a couple of masters program designed for PhD preparation, and some of them have already built reputation. One can only apply to academic-oriented masters programs, right?

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    Re: Int'l student, where to take masters?

    Quote Originally Posted by kexin View Post
    But why would one potential PhD applicant apply to such a program? There are still a couple of masters program designed for PhD preparation, and some of them have already built reputation. One can only apply to academic-oriented masters programs, right?
    That's precisely the point that we're making... Someone preparing for a PhD should not apply to such a programme. Hence, why European masters programmes are much better since the ones listed here are specifically geared towards students preparing for a PhD.

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    Re: Int'l student, where to take masters?

    Quote Originally Posted by tutonic View Post
    That's precisely the point that we're making... Someone preparing for a PhD should not apply to such a programme. Hence, why European masters programmes are much better since the ones listed here are specifically geared towards students preparing for a PhD.
    OK. I would say, as Asians like us, who did our undergraduate studies outside the US, we really don't know there are many econ master programs in universities ranking after 50 (econ). That's because when we seek for information, we ask our peers, we refer to some forums, and what we get is we may apply to programs at Duke, Wisconsin, Boston, UT-Austin, Penn State, Chicago MAXSS, MARCM, Cornell AEM, Tufts, and some others. We would generally only apply (some of) these programs if we wanna pursue a PhD later. We just don't know there are numerous other terminal MS programs, industry-oriented maybe. (No offense) Most of these (I believe?) provide access to PhD sequences. Many foreigners, like us, are lack of information that there are many many MS programs in other schools.

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    Re: Int'l student, where to take masters?

    I just do not see any marginal chance enhancement in terms of getting accepted from US top 20 schools. if there was a marginal increase in probability to get into those schools, I would have mentioned. I suggest you should look into those European schools' placement records and make up your own mind.

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    Re: Int'l student, where to take masters?

    Quote Originally Posted by kexin View Post
    OK. I would say, as Asians like us, who did our undergraduate studies outside the US, we really don't know there are many econ master programs in universities ranking after 50 (econ). That's because when we seek for information, we ask our peers, we refer to some forums, and what we get is we may apply to programs at Duke, Wisconsin, Boston, UT-Austin, Penn State, Chicago MAXSS, MARCM, Cornell AEM, Tufts, and some others. We would generally only apply (some of) these programs if we wanna pursue a PhD later. We just don't know there are numerous other terminal MS programs, industry-oriented maybe. (No offense) Most of these (I believe?) provide access to PhD sequences. Many foreigners, like us, are lack of information that there are many many MS programs in other schools.
    Does Cornell AEM MS have solid PhD placements? I keep hearing that masters in "applied economics" aren't useful for applying to PhDs.

    Also what do you mean by Chicago MAXSS and MARCM?

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